Orson Scott Card flames J.K Rowling

[Doligan]

FFS it's not like she had a press conference to announce his gayness. A question was posed to her about if Dumbledore had any loves and she said something to the effect of "Actually in my mind he was gay," and then SUDDENLY Media Frenzy! Dumbledore outed! Should she have lied in response to the question?

She could have answered the question, and if he did have a male cock-holster she could have explained it then.

[Chrisb3]

I had a gay friend and he absolutly loved that Dumbledore was gay, I think people are just exaggerating it to make her look bad for some reason.
Being gay is not a big deal in England at all, I guess it's slightly different in america or something? I don't understand why it's an issue.

You guys would be better off talking about the unorigonal writing accusation as it sounds much more interesting.

[Etwynn]

"Well, heck, I feel like the plot of my novel Ender's Game was stolen by J.K. Rowling."

I've read both books. No intelligent author--no intelligent person could think that. Does he really expect a novel to be different from every other story ever written to be considered original? Besides the fact that the Harry Potter Series has a completely different resolution than the Ender's Game, what he says here is fantastically dumb:

"A young kid growing up in an oppressive family situation suddenly learns that he is one of a special class of children with special abilities, who are to be educated in a remote training facility where student life is dominated by an intense game played by teams flying in midair, at which this kid turns out to be exceptionally talented and a natural leader. He trains other kids in unauthorized extra sessions, which enrages his enemies, who attack him with the intention of killing him; but he is protected by his loyal, brilliant friends and gains strength from the love of some of his family members. He is given special guidance by an older man of legendary accomplishments who previously kept the enemy at bay. He goes on to become the crucial figure in a struggle against an unseen enemy who threatens the whole world."

dude.

OH MY GOD TWO DIFFERENT PIECES OF LITERATURE SHARE COMMON PLOT POINTS AND THEMES! Does Orson Scott Card actually think that he invented that aforementioned story formula? Does he not realize that the same basic stories get rewritten all the time. Some famous dude once said that there are only 7 different narratives. While I'd be hesitant to put a number on it, I tend to agree that when you break a story down to it's most basic elements then it will have many, many things in common with many, many different pieces of literature. The key is in the details. A good writer would know that and while I could easily make a list of significant deviations which make the Harry Potter series both different in terms of plot and ethical framework, frankly this douchebag is not worth my time.

The lexicon issue aside, which will be determined in court by copyright laws, Orson S. Card is a nutjob. Have you read Ender's Game? The guy is a fucking pedophile strait up. I hated his book and his religion verges on being a cult. When I was reading that POS, I was seriously afraid that it was secretly trying to instill crazy Mormon values in me.

[Heylel Teomim]

Originally Posted by Chrisb3

I had a gay friend and he absolutly loved that Dumbledore was gay, I think people are just exaggerating it to make her look bad for some reason.
Being gay is not a big deal in England at all, I guess it's slightly different in america or something? I don't understand why it's an issue.

You guys would be better off talking about the unorigonal writing accusation as it sounds much more interesting.

No one's thrashing the prospect of a gay character at all. It's the after-the-fact statement of him being gay with practically nonexistent support in the text that I and others feel is offensive. It smacks of fishing for edgy writing by including a marginalized group who, if you point out that she's exploiting them for intellectual bragging rights, will accuse you of having a problem with the lifestyle. Coincidentally, this is exactly what you've assumed people here were doing.

[Heylel Teomim]

Originally Posted by Etwynn

"Well, heck, I feel like the plot of my novel Ender's Game was stolen by J.K. Rowling."

I've read both books. No intelligent author--no intelligent person could think that. Does he really expect a novel to be different from every other story ever written to be considered original? Besides the fact that the Harry Potter Series has a completely different resolution than the Ender's Game, what he says here is fantastically dumb:

OH MY GOD TWO DIFFERENT PIECES OF LITERATURE SHARE COMMON PLOT POINTS AND THEMES! Does Orson Scott Card actually think that he invented that aforementioned story formula? Does he not realize that the same basic stories get rewritten all the time. Some famous dude once said that there are only 7 different narratives. While I'd be hesitant to put a number on it, I tend to agree that when you break a story down to it's most basic elements then it will have many, many things in common with many, many different pieces of literature. The key is in the details. A good writer would know that and while I could easily make a list of significant deviations which make the Harry Potter series both different in terms of plot and ethical framework, frankly this douchebag is not worth my time.

That's precisely his point, that authors reuse the same basic elements all the time. He was accusing Rowling of trying to subvert that by suing someone for doing something that happens for almost every major fantasy series: a guidebook.

If you missed the sarcasm in what he was writing then you've missed his entire point.

[Fog]

Originally Posted by Heylel Teomim

The article's own author calls his friend who wrote the Hitler essay a fundamentalist Christian nutjob. I assume much of her interpretation is sourced in that background.

Bullshit. It does not say that. Be more careful with your reading.

The relevant quote:

[Elaine's] worldview was strongly informed by being raised among fundamentalist Christian nutjobs, which explains part of her anger. She felt Card was building a deliberate fraud...

By the way, you can read the essay referenced here in full. Draw your own conclusions. I don't think Ender's Game is a very good book, but I feel the Hitler comparisons are a bit of a reach, to say the least.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Fog

I don't think Ender's Game is a very good book

dOES nOT cOMPUTE

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Etwynn

OH MY GOD TWO DIFFERENT PIECES OF LITERATURE SHARE COMMON PLOT POINTS AND THEMES!

WOOOOOSSSHHHH

[Froofy-D]

You gotta be nuts to think Ender's Game sucked. Either that or someone spoiled the book in advance for you. The revelation toward the end (won't spoil it hehe) was a "holy shit" moment on par with when Neo woke in the real world in Matrix 1, or when we found out that Soilent Green is PEOPLE.

Millie, and whoever else, if you didn't read it, do so. It's must read sci-fi.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Salshun

Anyone else get really pissed when someone tells them how much of an awesome fantasy series the Harry Potter books are and you just want to sit them down and force them to read Salvatore's Drizzt series, the Dark Tower Series, Orson's shit, etc., just to enlighten them?

I've read all of these and I still think HP is worth reading.

[NargorothRiP]

well that makes sense coming from you. I mean the ass fucking and all.

[Grimmlokk]

Originally Posted by Lithose

WOOOOOSSSHHHH

I laughed=)


Also, you can make your characters gay without hardcore(and hilarious!) sex scenes. A good author could fit it into the story without ruining anything or making it blatant.


Renly + Loras


As someone else mentioned, the most damning thing to me is the fact that this guy has had a site with this same stuff on it for 7 years, and Rowling used it/sites like it personally. Only now is she suing. Which is fine, it's her right I guess. Just comes off incredibly petty for someone like her to be going after this guy making a tiny HP reference book.

Just goes to show what I've always said is true: If you read Harry Potter you are an asshole supporting a cunt.

[MacPoopypants]

Renly + Loras

lol, I'm as a naive a reader as I am irl. I didn't pick that up.

I lenjoyed Ender's game but I never understood why it's considered one of the top 5 sci-fi books of all time on some lists. It did not touch the likes of Heinlein or Herbert.

The Harry Potter series was good. She deserves her "brazilians" more than Dan Brown does. He sucks worse than Robert Jordan.

All though, binding and selling your internet fan crap in a book store sure seems like crossing a line to me. Can do a Star Wars encyclopedia without paying Lucas? George will be ok with it because I'm such a big fan!! Fuckin A, who wants to help?

[Schatze]

Oh god, you beat me to the Renly + Loras snide comment. Damn you.

As to Harry Potter, in my mind it's like the Da Vinci code. People who do not read, or do not read a specific genre, hear about how wonderful a book/series is, get caught in the hype, and have no objective comparison to realize that HP was mediocre (at least compared to adult material; the Da Vinci code was just horrible and was written for people with ADHD).

On the other hand, it was a decent young adult series for people who aren't normally readers, and anything that gets people reading is good in my books even if I tend to think the material they're reading isn't great. Then again, I started out reading Brian Lumley and David Eddings, so I have no right to throw stones. Hopefully people who were introduced to reading by the HP series keep on reading and progress onwards to better stuff.

Frankly, reading for pleasure is so uncommon these days among the general population that anything that can galvanize people to start picking up books is a net positive. Sure, many criticisms can be leveled at Rowling and her books, but fundamentally she did a lot of good that outweighs the bad.

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Etwynn

I hated his book and his religion verges on being a cult. When I was reading that POS, I was seriously afraid that it was secretly trying to instill crazy Mormon values in me.

Jesus you are fucking ignorant.


On topic. She deserves whatever shit flies her way. I don't care if Dumbledore is gay or not she was/is a fucking coward because of the way she went about it. If you want one of the main characters to be gay then fine but keeping that on the downlow until after sales are finished is cowardly. She doesn't stand by her choice because if she did Dumbledore would of be outed in book 1.

Honestly once a book hits the shelves the author needs to leave it the fuck alone. If we can learn anything from George Lucas it is that. Come to think of it I think Lucas and her are in the same boat and I expect to see the same behavior from Rowling. She has peaked and will never write another series that even compares to Potter and will more then likely just continue to milk the shit out of Harry until she dies.

Just like Lucas she will begin to devalue her own work if she isn't careful. I really couldn't care less but there are plenty of fans out there that I am sure don't want their "vision" of the story constantly challenged by a bored author.