Bleach [Manga] - Spoilers up to the most recent Chapter.

[Chrisb3]

Originally Posted by Soundwave

Vasto Lorde are the only ones who are supposed to be in humanoid form though. And not only are most of the Espada, but their vice-captains and such are as well. I truly believe the author is just making up crap and not being able to follow through and be consistent as he goes.

Try reading the manga!? O_O

Vastrolords are supposed to be small human shaped and intelligent HOLLOWS.
The Espada and others in Las Noches are ARRANCAR.

Not enough information has been given on Vastrolords to say that the author is making shit up, we don't even know if they look like humans... I assume that they dont. The siloutte they showed of one certaintly didn't look like any human I have seen, it was human size though.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by joeintokyo

Man this issue was pretty sweet, have a lot of things happening in just a few pages it seems like.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

And if I am not mistaken was that Hiyori in a mask? And was the other vaizard/shinigami type guy actually being made by Tousen? Gotta love the look on Captain Hirako when he realizes that it was Aizen all along....
wanted to add something in here...where captain kyoraku is walking around in the beginning and once he spots aizen he says "i must be overthinking things" is this a hint that he is suspicious of aizen?

anyway had a lot of questions hehe

My prediction:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The proto-vaizards get their hollows under control (with some help from Urahara and his MacGuffin) and become actual vaizards. They go back to Soul Society and try to accuse Aizen but he's beaten them to it and portrays them as hollow-warped monstrosities with Urahara behind it all. The vaizards & Urahara get exiled, Aizen gets promoted due to his 'heroic' actions in 'saving' everyone from the 'evil' vaizards. This is also where he first decides to acquire Urahara's little trinket, to improve his own abilities. And cue the Soul Society arc, a century or so down the line.

[Soundwave]

Originally Posted by Chrisb3

Try reading the manga!? O_O

Vastrolords are supposed to be small human shaped and intelligent HOLLOWS.
The Espada and others in Las Noches are ARRANCAR.

Not enough information has been given on Vastrolords to say that the author is making shit up, we don't even know if they look like humans... I assume that they dont. The siloutte they showed of one certaintly didn't look like any human I have seen, it was human size though.

I read the manga. I am just not seeing why there are going to be humanoid hollows, and then humanoid arrancars which are basically hollows. Vasto Lorde is just a class of Menos, which through Aaroniero, we found out that all Espada are a class of Menos. He was the only Gillian. I believe that the author is trying to lead us to assume that Espada members such as Ulquiorra and Halibel, who look completely humanoid, are Vasto Lorde.

It was also stated that in order to maintain a Vasto Lorde's form that they needed to cannabilize on other hollows, which is exactly what Grimmjow did to become a humanoid form.

And if you count all of Exequias, there are a lot more than 20 humanoid formed arrancars, so that cannot be what Aizen was talking about.

The author might have a general story line in mind, but a lot of the details seem to be improvised. It doesn't seem to be very consistent.

[Zanoan]

Originally Posted by Itzena

My prediction:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The proto-vaizards get their hollows under control (with some help from Urahara and his MacGuffin) and become actual vaizards. They go back to Soul Society and try to accuse Aizen but he's beaten them to it and portrays them as hollow-warped monstrosities with Urahara behind it all. The vaizards & Urahara get exiled, Aizen gets promoted due to his 'heroic' actions in 'saving' everyone from the 'evil' vaizards. This is also where he first decides to acquire Urahara's little trinket, to improve his own abilities. And cue the Soul Society arc, a century or so down the line.

Makes sense to me.

[Itzena]

It also ties in nicely with the vaizards "Hey, you know what? Fuck Soul Society" attitude.

[cdyhybrid]

Grimmjow was not humanoid, he was a panther. Vasto Lorde arrancar are humanoid in their original hollow forms, Grimmjow was not. All decently powerful hollows are going to look humanoid once they become arrancar (that's the entire point, to become more like shinigami). A lot of people think the top 4 are Vasto Lorde because Ulquiorra whooped Ichigo, who in turn whooped Grimmjow. But we haven't seen them release or their backstory, so it's impossible to say right now. There's no way Aizen has 20 Vasto Lorde, otherwise he would have invaded Soul Society long ago.

[Chrisb3]

Originally Posted by Soundwave

I read the manga. I am just not seeing why there are going to be humanoid hollows, and then humanoid arrancars which are basically hollows. Vasto Lorde is just a class of Menos, which through Aaroniero, we found out that all Espada are a class of Menos. He was the only Gillian. I believe that the author is trying to lead us to assume that Espada members such as Ulquiorra and Halibel, who look completely humanoid, are Vasto Lorde.

Arrancar look like Humans because they had their masks ripped off and now have a more Shinigami like form. Just like the Vaisards have a more Hollow like form (the masks).
Vastrolords don't look like Humans, they look like humanoid size/shaped Hollows. The example silhouette of a Vastrolord given when Hitsugaya explained about them doesn't look like a Humans, it just has the same number of limbs and general shape/size.

Originally Posted by Soundwave

It was also stated that in order to maintain a Vasto Lorde's form that they needed to cannabilize on other hollows, which is exactly what Grimmjow did to become a humanoid form.

He said that about Adjucha. Nothing has been said about the Vastrolord exept that there are very few who are the most powerful and intelligent pure hollows. Grimmjow became Human/Shinigami like after having his mask ripped off. He is also most likey an Adjucha because he still has his Adjucha animal form.

Originally Posted by Soundwave

And if you count all of Exequias, there are a lot more than 20 humanoid formed arrancars, so that cannot be what Aizen was talking about.

I don't think he had all of his minions in one room.

Originally Posted by Soundwave

The author might have a general story line in mind, but a lot of the details seem to be improvised. It doesn't seem to be very consistent.

No you just misunderstand what Arrancar and Vastrolords are.

[Kaio]

The thing about vastrolordes is that whenever they talk about them it sounds like it's a natural (although rare progression). Vizards seem like some kind of unnatural thing that those shinigami's were forced into becoming though artificial means.

The author has given no forshadowing or even inkling of a connection betweem vizards and vastrolordes.

The whole structure of hollows of that level are vastly different from vizards who are still of one or at most two souls (if the hollow has it's own soul rather then being a part of the shinigami's).

Hollows of the three menos variety are comprised of many different souls/hollows. When one soul dominates over all others they seem to become an adjucha but that doesn't mean the other souls are gone, rather the primary soul is controlling all the other souls and it's power comes from them. Hollows regularly eat other hollows for power and vastrolordes are just a highly evolved form of adjuchas.

[Soundwave]

"Vasto lorde are the most powerful class of menos, and the final stage in the menos evolutionary line. They appear almost completely humanoid, and each one is stronger than an average Soul Reaper captain; Tōshirō claims that ten of them under Sōsuke Aizen's control would be enough to defeat all of Soul Society. It seems that Aizen has important plans with them, but the details haven't been revealed.

Vasto lorde are the least common form of menos, but the exact population is unknown. They are believed to reside within the very depths of Hueco Mundo. Apart from the need to cannibalize even more hollows, any special requirements for the creation of a vasto lorde are unknown."

That is where I got confused. I believed that Grimmjow would've achieved becoming a Vasto Lorde after consuming the rest of the group, but I guess it wasn't revealed. That and the way Aizen said "brothers and sisters" right after Hitsugaya saying Vasto Lorde. I just assumed Aizen, even if having the firepower, was waiting for his plan to evolve.

And my comment about the author not being consistent isn't in regards only to the hollow. There are still pieces that he needs to patch up very creatively for them to make sense. And why are a lot of the current shinigami kids in these chapters yet the captains look the same? Do only certain people age in Soul Society or was that not revealed?

[Kaio]

Pretty sure there was a whole scene where Grimmjow was crying about not becoming a vastrolord.

[Kaige]

It kicks back to what Aizen talks about to Ichigo at the execution grounds. The only way to take another step in true power is to cross the borderline between styles.


Vastolords are just really powerful Hollows.

Arrancar are like the Vaizard and Ichigo but reverse-engineered. They're Hollows that have been able (by whatever means) to cross the Hollow borderline into Shinigami territory in the same way that Ichigo and the Vaizard are able to tap into Hollow territory.

Its kind of like in RPGs where a character has a main class they excel at, then later picks a second class to supplement their adventuring.

[Zindan]

About Tousen in this latest chapter:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Was he taking off a normal mask / visor, or was it a hybrid Mask? Also, about Kensei. It seemed that he was in the process of becoming a Vaizard, that is, the Hollow side was not totally controlled...based on his form being less than human in appearance.

I am curious to see how they (the Vaizards) will escape from SS after Aizen has his way with them.

[Chrisb3]

It's just a normal mask. He had it when the other 9th Squaddies where around (which is why we didn't know it was him), and they would have noticed the weird Vaisard reiatsu.

[cdyhybrid]

Urahara and Tessai are probably going to show up and put the smack down on Aizen and Co. and chase them off. At least that's what I hope happens

[Nazbuk]

Wow, great read on the latest manga.