[Manga] Naruto (warning: spoilers up to current chapter)

[Tullaeniel]

I heard Itachi is Jesus, with the OMGWTFBBQ Mangekyou Sharingan he will resurrect in three issues and we'll have Easter in Konoha.

[Rezz]

Is it ok that I'm mildly offended by the deus ex machina shit that is going on?

Itachi has been a bad guy since issue 3, period. they are 390ish issues in, now all of a sudden he's a good guy? This can't have been part of the original design, it simply doesn't make any sense unless the writer was just like " and then mostly through the story we can flip the concepts around and make the biggest bad guy in the entire story into a good guy!" which makes no fucking sense.

Still, I have to say the concept of backstory doesn't infuriate me that much, and I'm interested to know more about Konoha's inception.

[Grave]

I think it's actually pretty unsurprising to a lot of fans. I constantly heard theories that Itachi was somehow forced to kill the clan or had some reason for doing it other than what had been said.

Actually, I partially believed it too UNTIL the Sasuke vs. Itachi fight when he appeared to truly be batshit insane, screaming about taking Sasuke's eyes and whatnot. At that point, it really seemed like he was the insane murderer we were led to believe.

That, more than anything, makes it surprising to me that the author is now playing this card. It would have worked MUCH better imo if he had let Itachi remain stoic during their encounter.

[Zanoan]

Well I don't mind Itachi suddenly becoming a good guy for that matter.

My guess so far would be that the Uchiha clan as a whole are to be considered as bad, since they summoned the Kyubi (Nine Tails) approximately 15 years ago. They lived on a lie where they wanted to be considered the good guys of Konoha. Any how, Itachi, as the hero he is, makes a pact with some higher ups in Konoha (Third, prolly, and some others) that he is to wipe out the clan. It can be totally random why it is him, but say that it is because he's a damn great shinobi would be fine to me.

Afterwards, if he was to kill himself, or atleast - he would continue the act as if he was the insane murderer and the Uchihas were still the good guys, seek out the Akatsuki fellas and perhaps work as a spy. Or, here he decided not to kill himself and join the Akatsuki, and who wouldn't want Itachi in their ranks?

Anywya, the deal for wiping out Uchiha was that one remaining member was to be spared so the clan/blood limit wasn't all lost - and the remaining fella should never be informed about WHY the Uchihas were wiped out in the first place/or what terrible powers they have, so whatever remnants or offspring wouldn't get the idea to try something like that again.

[Grave]

Most likely Sasuke was left alive as a safeguard for Konoha.

We already know the Uchiha had the ability to suppress the Kyuubi chakra and it may have even been their task to protect Konoha from it. You can see on the cover spread of the latest chapter the Kyuubi is wrapped in chains and has a sharingan eye.

I'd say what happened was the Uchiha realized how much leverage they really had over Konoha because of this, and eventually tried to use this to gain greater power, or possibly even take over the village. Likely this ended up in the Kyuubi summoning, but they failed because of the 4th.

Whether they knew the Uchiha were behind this or not, I don't know, but for whatever reason the clan was spared for some years after that. Then perhaps they decided it was too dangerous to leave them alive in case the Kyuubi was ever released, so they were wiped out - with the exception of Sasuke.

Keeping Sasuke alive allows Konoha to have a safeguard in case something ever goes wrong and the Kyuubi breaks free of Naruto or Naruto becomes the Kyuubi. This will probably end up being why they were placed together at the start of the series, and why after becoming a rogue ninja Konoha does not allow Sasuke to be killed like missing-nin are supposed to be. They need him.

[Zanoan]

Yeah good point. The reason why Naruto and Sasuke were on the same team for starters had something to do with this, and why Sasuke is so god damn important to the village. Always wondered why they would focus so much on him (I mean, other people than Naruto.).

But well, speculations I guess.

[Kaio]

Him being the last of the powerful Uchiha clan and the highest rated genin at the time probably was enough to be have him be the center of a attention in a lot of places.

Killing tons of innocent kids, old aunts,etc with no ninjutsu cannot be considered a good act and I can't see the third ever approving it as well. If Konoha ever ordered it, it was root (i'd fucking kill that danzou bastard if that happend and i was the Hokage).

[Rezz]

At this point I don't think we can assume that everything Madara is saying is going to be exactly the truth regarding the incident with itachi. The history lesson will probably be accurate, but there's bound to be some distortion via Madara trying to get things moving in a specific way to suit his own ends. That definitely seems to be par for the course with these big revelations.

Though I'm guessing that when Itachi "killed" his best friend to get his mangekyo it might have been self defense, where he will have learned of the inherent evil in the clan. Unless I'm remembering wrong, it was right before he was enlisted for a special mission for konoha. The timing would fit and would explain why Itachi was willing to wipe out his clan, code of the ninja or not.

[column]

This is the confirmed spolier for this week.

柱間は木の葉ができる前から火影を名乗っていた
Hashirama used the name of Hokage before the village hidden in the mist begin.

柱間率いる千手一族はどの忍びからも一目おかれ恐れられていた
Senju clan whose leader was Hashirama was respected and was afraid by every Shinobi.

千手が動けばうちはが動く
When Senju moves, Uchiha moves.

奴等を相手に出来るのうちはくらいだった
Only Uchiha could deal with Senju.

千手を雇えば対立国はうちはをやとう……柱間と対立するうちオレのなもどんどん知られた」
If a country employed Senju, the opponent employed uchiha...
My name (Madara) became famous, while I opposed with Hashirama.

サスケ「名をあげるために弟の眼を奪ったのか?」
Sasuke: Did you deprived your brother's eyes to make your fame?

まだら「名をあげるためではない弟は自ら眼を差し出したのだ」
Madara: It wasn't for fame. My brother offered them by his choice.

マダラは拳(正確には左手で右手の腕を)をにぎる
Madara gripped his left fist by his right hand.

「だが千手はうちはに休戦を申し出た
Madara: But Senju offered armistice.

うちははこれに同意した
Uchiha agreed with this.

だがオレは休戦に一人反対した
But I only opposed this armistice.

今までの憎しみは?弟はなんのために犠牲になったのだ?」
Sasuke: What was this hatered we had till now?
Why my brother sacrificed himself?

「いずれうちはは千手に駆逐されてしまうと思えてならなかったが皆は休戦を望んでいたのでオレ はリーダーと して仕方なく意思を汲み取った」
Madara: I thought Senju would wipe us out in future, but everyone wanted armistice, so I agreed with armistice according to clan's will as a leader. I had no choice.

まだらと柱間が握手をする
Madara and Senju shake hands.

「それから程なく我らは火の国との協定にこぎつける
Then we reached an accord with the country of fire.

火の国と木の葉隠れの里だ
The county of fire and the village hidden in the leaves.

この一国一里のシステムをあらゆる国が真似た
Every country emulated this one contry and one village system.

それにより争いもなくなる
The conflicts disappeared by this system.

ひとたびの平和だ」
Temporay peace has come.

「だが木の葉はある出来事により混乱におちいる」
But the village hidden in the leaves get into trouble by an incident.

サスケ「?」
Sasuke: ?

まだら「初代火影の座だ
Madara: The position of the first Hokage.

火の国も里の皆も柱間を選んだ
The country of fire and people in the village chose Hashirama.

うちはの主権が遠ざかるからオレは柱間と対峙する道を選んだがうちはの者でさえオレについて来 るものはいな かった
I afraid that Uchiha would be get away from dominion, so I decided to oppose Hashirama, but even a member of Uchiha didn't follow me.

オレは叩かれそれどころか弟の眼を奪った欲深いあにだと言われた………
I was criticized and said I am a greedy elder brother who robbed eyes from his younger brother.

どこに好き好んで弟を傷つける兄がい る?
There is no elder brother who is willing to heart his younger brother.

オレはうちはを守りたかっただけだ……!オレは里を出た」
I've just wanted to protect Uchiha! I've left the village.

「復讐者となり里に戦いを挑んだ」
I became an avenger and challenged village.

「オレは敗れた……オレはあそこで死んだ………とされている。
I was defeated...I died there...They thought so.

柱間でさえ そう思ったはずだ」
Even Hashirama should have believed it.

「柱間の弟であり二代目は反逆者を出さない為に信頼の証としてうちはに警務部隊の役職を 与えた
The second Hokage who is younger brother of Hashirama assigned Uchiha to police force to show how much he believe Uchiha clan.

しかし実際は監視かに置くためだった
But actually, that was to observe Uchiha.

その意図に気付いたうちはの者もいてオレの意思を次ぐ奴も出てきた
Some members of Uchiha have noticed this and tried to execute my will.

時すでに遅し…うちはは千手の犬に成り下がっていた」
But it was too late...Uchiha has already become a dog (subordinate) of Senju.

「そしてある事件でうちはは完全に駆逐される」
And Uchiha has totally wiped out by an incident.

16年前の九尾来襲だ
The attack by Nine-tail fox in 16 years before.

それをうちはがやったと勘ぐったのがダンゾウと相談役二人
Danzo and two old advisers deduced that Uchiha did it.

九尾は天災でうちはは関係していないのに反逆を狙ったとか色々言われた
Nine-Tail fox was a natural disaster and Uchiha wasn't included it, but they said we planed rebellion and so on.

それ以降はうちはは暗部により監視されまくり里から隔離された
After that, ANBU kept watching Uchiha and Uchiha was isolated from the village.

三代目は隔離に意義を唱えたがみんな認めなかった
The third Hokage opposed this, but no one agreed with him.

そしてうちは一族里を乗っとる為にはクーデターを企んだ
And Uchiha clan planed coup d'etat to take over the village.

それを阻止したのが お前の兄うちはイタチだ
The man who stopped this was Itachi, your elder brother.

そこから奴の地獄は始まったのだ」
His hell started from that time.

Itachi turns out to be the savior of Konoha,even tho they betrayed his clan. The 3rd must have made a great impression on him that things will change.

[column]

More accurate translation of the same spoiler.

柱間は木の葉ができる前から火影を名乗っていた
柱間率いる千手一族はどの忍びからも一目おかれ恐れられていた

千手が動けばうちはが動く
奴等を相手に出来るのうちはくらいだった
千手を雇えば対立国はうちはをやとう……柱間と対立するうちオレのなもどんどん知られた」

"Hashirama had been calling himself "Hokage" sinde before Konoha was created. The Senjuu clan he led was feared and respected by all shinobi.

When the Senjuu moved, so did the Uchiha.
The Uchiha were the only ones who could fight them evenly.
If one country hired Senjuu, it's enemy would hire the Uchihas...and I,who would take Hashirama on, quickly grew to be well-known."

サスケ「名をあげるために弟の眼を奪ったのか？」
まだら「名をあげるためではない
弟は自ら眼を差し出したのだ」

Sasuke: You took your brother's eyes in your quest for renown?

Madara: Not for renown. My brother offered me his eyes.

マダラは拳(正確には左手で右手の腕を)をにぎる

Madara clenches his fists (more precisely, he grasps his right arm with his left hand).

(Madara's narration continues - Iwa)

「だが千手はうちはに休戦を申し出た

うちははこれに同意した

だがオレは休戦に一人反対した

今までの憎しみは？弟はなんのために犠牲になったのだ？」
「いずれうちはは千手に駆逐されてしまうと思えてならなかったが皆は休戦を望んでいたのでオレ はリーダーと して仕方なく意思を汲み取った」

"But the Senjuu offered the Uchiha a truce."

"The Uchiha accepted."

"I alone was opposed to it."

"Was I to simply cast aside the rancor? Was my brother's sacrifice to be for naught? Though tormented by the suspicion the Senjuu would sooner or later turn on the Uchiha, the truce was what every last man in the clan desired - so I reluctantly accepted."

まだらと柱間が握手をする

Madara and Hashirama shake hands.

「それから程なく我らは火の国との協定にこぎつける
火の国と木の葉隠れの里だ
この一国一里のシステムをあらゆる国が真似た
それにより争いもなくなる
ひとたびの平和だ」

「だが木の葉はある出来事により混乱におちいる」

"Not long after, we reached an arrangement with Fire Country - and thus was born the Village of Konoha Gakure . The arrangement of one village per country was adopted by all, and thus putting an end to strife. A transitory peace was reached."

"Then, a certain event would rattle the village ."

サスケ「？」

Sasuke: ?

(Madara continues - Iwa)

まだら「初代火影の座だ
火の国も里の皆も柱間を選んだ
うちはの主権が遠ざかるからオレは柱間と対峙する道を選んだがうちはの者でさえオレについて来 るものはいな かった
オレは叩かれそれどころか弟の眼を奪った欲深いあにだと言われた………どこに好き好んで弟を傷 つける兄がい る？オレはうちはを守りたかっただけだ……！オレは里を出た」

「復讐者となり里に戦いを挑んだ」「オレは敗れた……オレはあそこで死んだ………とされている 。柱間でさえ そう思ったはずだ」「柱間の弟であり二代目は反逆者を出さない為に信頼の証としてうちはに警務 部隊の役職を 与えた
しかし実際は監視かに置くためだった
その意図に気付いたうちはの者もいてオレの意思を次ぐ奴も出てきた

"The position of Hokage. Both Fire Country and the Villagers chose Hashirama. Fearing our clan's power would be compromised, I opposed Hashirama - yet there was none among the Uchiha who would follow me. They didn't stop at slander, but even went so far as to claim I was a man whose lust for power had driven him to steal his younger brother's eyes...and I ask you, just what kind of man would take pleasure in hurting his younger brother? What I'd done, I'd done to protect the clan, and no more... so I left the village."

"I became an avenger, and waged battle against the village*...I lost...and died...or so it's believed. I'm sure Hashirama figured as much himself. His younger brother, The Second, lest traitors should arise within the Uchiha ranks, gave the clan the position of police as a token of his trust. In reality, the idea was to keep them under surveillance. More than one Uchiha caught on to the fact, and began to sympathize with my position."

*This line corresponds to the first spoiler image.

(Madara's narration continues - Iwa)

時すでに遅し…うちはは千手の犬に成り下がっていた」

"Too little, too late...the Uchiha had already been relagated to the Senjuu's lapdogs."

「そしてある事件でうちはは完全に駆逐される」
１６年前の九尾来襲だ

"And one incident would seal the animosity toward the Uchiha: the Kyuubi's attack 16 years ago."

ちょっと疲れたから後は簡単でいい？
そう？ありがと

I'm kinda tired, so you guys mind if I just summarize the rest? No? Thanks*!

(*comment by the spoiler poster - Iwa).

それをうちはがやったと勘ぐったのがダンゾウと相談役二人
九尾は天災でうちはは関係していないのに反逆を狙ったとか色々言われた
それ以降はうちはは暗部により監視されまくり
里から隔離された

The two advisors and Danzou mistakenly believed it was the Uchiha's doing. Despite the fact the Kyuubi's attack had been a natural disaster, it was said the Uchiha had plotted revenge and such. From that point on, the Uchiha were kept under strict Anbu surveillance. They were segregated from the village.

三代目は隔離に意義を唱えたがみんな認めなかった

The Third extolled the virtues of segregation, but they (the Uchiha) weren't happy.

そしてうちは一族里を乗っとる為にはクーデターを企んだ

それを阻止したのが

The clan plotted to take over the village by executing a Coup d'etat. And the man responsible for stopping it was...

「お前の兄うちはイタチだ
そこから奴の地獄は始まったのだ」

"Your brother, Uchiha Itachi. And that's when his nightmare began."

[Tullaeniel]

Sigh, why does this feel like he's making it up as he goes. So not only is Itachi a good guy now Mandara is as well? Mandara the misunderstood outcast? This guy is in love with his Uchiha creations to much.

[Lenas]

Hear the whole thing out before you bitch? There are always two sides to the same story. You're also taking everything Madara says as 100% truth.

[Kaio]

Every post I remember you making you call him Mandara. Why in gods name do you say this?

[Zanoan]

Well, say this is the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I dig it, anyhow. But still, Itachi, killing his whole clan? Weird.

[Rezz]

I'm sensing mad BS in Madara's story. Yeah there was a great deal of shady shit going on in Konoha behind the curtains, but Uchiha being totally innocent doesn't make much sense. Storytime wasn't as interesting as I'd hoped it would be.