The State of Comic Books.

[Tabris]

You know, I've just had it with mainstream comic books in general. Not to sound like I'm channeling the Comics Journal, but goddamn the mainstream industry is a disaster.

Look at Civil War. While the initial idea was pretty interesting (although it smacks a bit of Watchmen for some reason), the overall writing was terrible, the dialogue was very, very bad, the execution and finale was just a mess, the tie in books were overdone and mostly poor, and the art was interminably delayed and overall pretty mediocre. I mean, the series featured a goddamn clone of Thor, the return of Captain Marvel and his installation as head of a gulag (WTF?), among other terrible plot points.

The worst part? The 75k or so fat old bald dudes who are eating it up like it's the best story ever told. It's a financial success, which is the worst part.

No wonder the comic book industry is locked into a solipsistic ghetto. No wonder it literally has nowhere to go but telling the same old stories again and again.

And the 'fans' love it.

The whole thing makes me kind of sick, actually. I've been reading comics for about 25 years now and I've never been embarrassed for the medium before. Now I am.

Time to give up mainstream comics, I think.

[chaos]

I got sick of mainstream comics when I was 15 dude. I branched off into the underground/independant stuff real quick. I haven't actively read comics for years now, and was shocked to recently learn stuff like Jim Lee working at DC, etc. Dark Horse was always quality, but still pretty mainstream. Valiant comics back in the day were amazing imo, they were very well written and a new take on the superhero genre, while maintaining elements that were still very comic-like. Too bad Jim Shooter was a fucking idiot.

Anyway, yeah, after the 5th or so X-Men timeline it became apparent to me that mainstream comics were total shit. There is so much potential there too, it's sad really.

[Tabris]

Oh I read a lot of the 'indie' stuff, don't worry. I actually loved Valiant Comics back when Shooter was writing it all, those were actually intelligently written super hero books that were done in a very realistic way with good science.

I just literally feel like my intelligence is being insulted by mainstream super hero stuff. The only thing that has been mainstream that has caught my attention has been Seven Soldiers of Victory by Morrison, and that's really only because he's such a quality writer.

[Kuro]

Spiderman and Deadpool are the only things in the Marvel Universe I still feel like ever reading.

Punisher has more plot armor than Batman, the Mutants are all emo and doing stupid "okay, secondary mutation OR godlike power, your choice!," and Civil War was terrible. Tony Stark can not be redeemed. Anything they try to do to redeem him is bullshit at best.

Maybe he'll be revealed to be controlled by skrulls again or whatever the fuck it was last time he was a huge prick.

Oh well, they're all fucking dead when Hulk comes back.

Also, fuck Clor.

[Vorph]

I can't stand anything but Vertigo, Marvel MAX, and a few random books (John Woo's 7 Brothers, The Luna Brothers' Girls, etc.) these days. It's not really superhero stuff I hate--Supreme Power was fantastic until they cut its balls off for the mainstream as Squadron Supreme, just like they did with Alias->The Pulse a few years ago. I just like the R rated comics so much more than the kiddie shit. Punisher MAX is by far the best book currently being produced.

I like Wildstorm too, but they are getting no money from me until I see The Boys #7 on the shelf (obviously it will be from a different publisher). Mostly I've been reading series that are a year or two old that I missed the first time around, catching up on some Warren Ellis stuff that I never read, etc.

And I agree about Civil War. I downloaded all of it up to January, but only read the first 3 or 4 months worth before I got bored out of my mind and gave up.

[dak]

Dark Horse has a lot of less popular franchises that are high quality.

[Grimmlokk]

Just recently got all caught up on Powers. Good shit, but I dunno how long they can keep it going with where it's at now.

The Red Star is really very cool. It's sort of a fantasy/post-modern/war thing. Set in "Russia"(U.R.R.S., United Republic of the Red Star). The art is amazing, they use some new computer technique for it. Story has been pretty cool too. Up to 3rd run now I believe.

I read The Boys on the recommendation of folks here and absolutely loved it. hope they get shit sorted out and keep em coming somewhat regularly.

Mainstream I've really liked The Ultimates, but it takes so fucking long to come out. Exiles I go in and out on. It's lost it's steam really.

[Arbitrary]

Man, that was a ton of build up for Civl War 7 to just not go anywhere. You don't do a Final Destination 2 style super long build and then stop midway through.

Weak.

Seriously weak.

[Vorph]

I find the whole situation surrounding The Boys to be completely retarded... I mean, they get pitched a book from Ennis, who has never made it a secret that he absolutely despises the stereotypical tights-wearing superhero shtick. They promote it as outdoing Preacher in terms of offensive content, and then some fuckwit is surprised when that's exactly what Ennis and Robertson do. Admittedly the series got much more graphic and offensive in issues 4-6, but it was never tame. I don't know if the hamster thing in issue 6 was the final straw or what, but it certainly wasn't the most fucked up thing in the book to date. IIRC it was the second or third best-selling Wildstorm book too.

At any rate, the good news is that Dynamite Entertainment has picked it up. No word yet on when the first trade will be out or when issue 7 will be published though, but it's apparently not going to be too long. Only thing I don't like about Dynamite is all the fucking variant covers they do. On the bright side, they can probably get away with just about anything short of graphic sex on an indie publisher like DE.

THE BEAT » Blog Archive » THE BOYS are Dynamite!

[Krauz]

I enjoyed Annihilation, its one of the better series to come out recently from marvel. They completely ravamp NOVA!!!! into a pretty awesome character.

Also, invincible is awesome shit, i fucking love that comic.

[Grimmlokk]

Yeah Invincible gives me hope for the generic hero genre.

Annihilation was fun for anyone who liked the cosmic marvel characters(Nova, Drax, Galactus' various heralds etc).

[Tabris]

The frustrating thing is that the Marvel characters can be used to tell some darn good stories. In fact, I think Civil War had a great premise but just went in a retarded direction. With a story like that it shouldn't devolve down into a big brawl with one side 'winning' and the other 'losing'.

I will still point out the X-Men Graphic Novel 'God Loves, Man Kills' as one of the best stories Marvel has ever told. It was a super hero story, but it was well written and presented some thoughtful and controversial issues.

Then I pop open something like Civil War or Infinite Crisis and I want to stop collecting comics entirely.

[Vorph]

I'm curious--what's so good about Invincible? I haven't read any of it yet because it just looked like a cross between Runaways and a tame version of Supreme Power.

[EmiliaEQ]

I think Marvel & DC producing shit. Good looking shit, but its shit.

By now they should have realised that :
- 100+ Volume stories are retarded (see Infinity Crisis & Civil War)
- 7 Timelines per hero is even worse (X-Men)
- Multipublished stories are stupid (Having to check 5 different comics for 1 story)

If you want some real quality to decent stuff (note some of this is OLD) :
- Avatar Press (the non Porn / Non Undead)
- DC Batman / DC Superman / LOTK / Adventures of Superman
- Hulk v3 (Gets better and better)
- Punisher Max (My favorite)
- House of M + Devastation (partial)
- Warren Ellis (Everything owns)
- Authority/Planetary (too similar decent)
- Hellblazer-Constantine
- Seven Soldiers


I used to like Marvel a lot (heroes & style).
Now i'm a hardcore "DC Classic" Fan.

Why ? The Dozen of Great Batman strories.
- Hush / Death and the Maidens / Superman+Batman / War Drums / War Games / Red Hood

PS Check a (very very small series) called 303

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by EmiliaEQ

PS Check a (very very small series) called 303

Yup, that's some of Ennis' best work right there. As much as I like his over-the-top offensive humor, I really wish he did more serious stuff like Punisher and 303.