Old Man's War (spoilers)

Zarcath · 11-07-2006, 06:18 AM

Only participate if you've finished the book. Overall reader reviews will be located in the main thread. Proceed at your own risk.

For the first page use black font for spoilers, after that reply normally.

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discuss below

Zarcath · 11-11-2006, 08:07 PM

Alright guess I'll go ahead and start.

I thought the book was pretty good, though it seemed more on the short and sweet side. Reminded me of Ender's Game, on more then one level, not just the sci-fi alien war connection. The book was easy to read. Seemed like it would be a book i'd have read in high school.

The book is softcore sci-fi, along the lines of Star Wars/Trek. Could have used more hardcore sci-fi. I think he should have wrote more about his time in the field, the battles were usually pretty quick.

Overall I think if someone like Stackpole or Allston might have done better with the material.

The cloned bodies were interesting.

If you were to record all of your memories/personality traits onto a HD and then plugged it into another body, would it be you? or would there still be something missing? Kind of a Ghost in the Shell thing to it.

All of the medical upgrades sounded plausible, like the smartblood.

Do you think synthetic human bodies would ever be accepted in real life? We have synthetic body parts already.

Nebuchadnezzar · 11-14-2006, 02:24 PM

I think it was an interesting concept novel, but it wasn't really done all that well. I'm rather amazed it got nominated for a Hugo actually.

First of all, there really wasn't any plot stucture to the larger story. Planets and aliens are just thrown in there to be as strange as possible without having any real weight or context in the galaxy.

I never actually bought that the characters were 75 either, other than the fact that they say they are 75 all the time. In fact that acted more like teenagers, which is usually what you get with an inexperienced author. Added into this is how stupid the characters were made to service the concept of the plot time and again.

Prose...prose was servicable, though he used far too many italics to emphasis in the beginning of the novel.

And my meta point. I really detest sci-fi like this that cares too much about the technology and nothing about the characters and everything else that makes fiction what it is. Here we got pages and pages of expotition with one character schooling the others about space elevators, artificial gravity, skip drives, and other numerous common sci-fi creations that didn't need to be explained. It just sucks. Its boring. When you have a good idea, be "hard" about it, if not, don't bother.

Aulirophile · 11-14-2006, 08:15 PM

Apparently this book got compared to Starship Troopers by Heinlein by a lot of people, hence the Hugo nomination. Where people got that comparison I have no idea.

None of the characters was very believable to me. The technology was very much smattered around without any real explanation about it, which is a terrible why to do Sci-Fi. If you took out all the stuff about SmartBlood it wouldn't have changed the book any. Chorphyll skin gets mentioned as such once and no one ever says why. Regeneration? Extra nutrients/energy from sunlight?

The one inch aliens actually disqualify the book as pure Sci-Fi. There is a known hard limit on how complex a molecule has to be to exchange energetic impulses and on how many of those impulses near each other are required to produce thoughts of a certain complexity. No matter how you folded a brain that was inside a one inch alien, it wouldn't be enough to produce thought complex enough to develop technology. Also due to technology of scale the engines on planes and such wouldn't actually be able to be proportional to said aliens. So even if they were one inch tall, their planes would be about as big as our stuff has to be.

The idea that Earth would end up being backwards, divided, and provincial while the initial colonizing effort encountered hostile aliens and geared up accordingly is the only thing about the book I really bought.

Zarcath · 11-15-2006, 06:03 AM

Yeah, I didn't have a hard time believing that earth is considered backwards hicktown. I don't understand how one faction could make the leap to interstellar travel. Did some alien craft crashland in a small nation that exploited it? With all the super aliens roaming I don't see how earth didn't get wiped out on first contact.

Aulirophile · 11-15-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarcath

Yeah, I didn't have a hard time believing that earth is considered backwards hicktown. I don't understand how one faction could make the leap to interstellar travel. Did some alien craft crashland in a small nation that exploited it? With all the super aliens roaming I don't see how earth didn't get wiped out on first contact.

Well, if I was writing this book and wanted to explain it, I'd say the inital space colonies on Luna/Mars/Stations/Other moons developed the Skip Drive and/or encountered an alien race and just sort of forgot to mention it to Earth. From there they started expanding and once they'd set up an industrial base on another planet, came back, put down the Beanstalks, and laid out the ground rules. It's possible we started out technology close to our neighbors so we had some padding, time-wise, to build up forces.

It hangs together, but barely. Either a brillant scientist who made a dozen important breakthroughs (or team thereof) or a really amazing diplomat/tech thief needs to be worked in there somewhere. The situation as described just seems an implausible destination.

Moontayle · 11-16-2006, 03:15 AM

OK, just got done reading this and overall I found it very enjoyable, but like many of you I question why it was nominated for a Hugo. It's very simplistic, almost to the point of catering down to the masses and doesn't bring anything new to the sci-fi table that hasn't been expanded upon before. It's almost like the author took his favorite sci-fi elements and made a novel about it.

On the whole I'd have to give it 3/5 stars. It worth the read, but you'd probably only ever read it once before shelving it until you could pass it off to someone else.

Khorum · 11-16-2006, 09:09 AM

I enjoyed the book immensely, although it was a little short. It's practically Hugo-fodder if you know what the award tends to lean on---consider that Starship Troopers, Ender's Game and even A Fire Upon The Deep were all about the perspective of unwitting citizen-soldiers in an alien war, it falls into the pattern.

The book was quick, reads like a screenplay, and was amusing although the science was a little thin. Scalzi's angle that most of the CDF's technology is stolen/adapted from aliens is pretty plausible imo, considering Vinge's Technological Singularity expansion on Hurzweil's concepts: namely that technology becomes commoditized to the point where it becomes as culture-neutral as mathematics, and just as easy to steal.

I came in expecting much worse for a first novel actually, but I was pleasantly surprised. I did get the VERY strong impression that the novel started life as a script though, Scalzi does a lot of his development and exposition via dialogue and every resolution feels aggressive and physical enough to be on film or TV.

Moontayle · 11-16-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khorum

I did get the VERY strong impression that the novel started life as a script though, Scalzi does a lot of his development and exposition via dialogue and every resolution feels aggressive and physical enough to be on film or TV.

Now that you mention it, it makes a hell of a lot of sense. There's very little in the way of description, so much so that I never got a true sense of place. Just enough to let my imagination get the broad picture, but little else. Since screenplays tend to one or two line settings, your observation is likely dead on.

apan · 11-16-2006, 05:35 PM

I thought the book was okey but nothing extraordinary. I should probably mention that I'm not a avid sci-fi reader, this is only my second sci-fi book or something like that.

The book started of slow in my opinion and I didn't like the first third of the book - at all. After that it starts to pick up and I started to develop at least a little sense of the characters and the last part of the book is actually pretty good.

In my opinion he spends too much time laying out specifications of technology that would have been been better used describing the scenery and the environment.

Also maybe it's just me but I thought the book was overly "witty". The only part that really had me laughing was when he named his "BrainPal" asshole, for some reason...

I agree about the the characters "not acting their age" and I don't understand how the author didn't add some cynical and grumpy old man. If he really wanted to be witty that would have been presented a ton of opportunity.

Some short remarks, might add a bit more later.

11-07-2006, 06:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
Zarcath Lead Farmer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5,076 +12 Internets	Old Man's War (spoilers) Only participate if you've finished the book. Overall reader reviews will be located in the main thread. Proceed at your own risk. For the first page use black font for spoilers, after that reply normally. spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space discuss below

11-14-2006, 02:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nebuchadnezzar Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,572 -3 Internets	I think it was an interesting concept novel, but it wasn't really done all that well. I'm rather amazed it got nominated for a Hugo actually. First of all, there really wasn't any plot stucture to the larger story. Planets and aliens are just thrown in there to be as strange as possible without having any real weight or context in the galaxy. I never actually bought that the characters were 75 either, other than the fact that they say they are 75 all the time. In fact that acted more like teenagers, which is usually what you get with an inexperienced author. Added into this is how stupid the characters were made to service the concept of the plot time and again. Prose...prose was servicable, though he used far too many italics to emphasis in the beginning of the novel. And my meta point. I really detest sci-fi like this that cares too much about the technology and nothing about the characters and everything else that makes fiction what it is. Here we got pages and pages of expotition with one character schooling the others about space elevators, artificial gravity, skip drives, and other numerous common sci-fi creations that didn't need to be explained. It just sucks. Its boring. When you have a good idea, be "hard" about it, if not, don't bother. __________________ I eat grass like an ox and shat like a fox. Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar : 11-14-2006 at 02:28 PM.

11-14-2006, 08:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
Aulirophile Ultima Ratio Regum Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 1,581 -2 Internets	Apparently this book got compared to Starship Troopers by Heinlein by a lot of people, hence the Hugo nomination. Where people got that comparison I have no idea. None of the characters was very believable to me. The technology was very much smattered around without any real explanation about it, which is a terrible why to do Sci-Fi. If you took out all the stuff about SmartBlood it wouldn't have changed the book any. Chorphyll skin gets mentioned as such once and no one ever says why. Regeneration? Extra nutrients/energy from sunlight? The one inch aliens actually disqualify the book as pure Sci-Fi. There is a known hard limit on how complex a molecule has to be to exchange energetic impulses and on how many of those impulses near each other are required to produce thoughts of a certain complexity. No matter how you folded a brain that was inside a one inch alien, it wouldn't be enough to produce thought complex enough to develop technology. Also due to technology of scale the engines on planes and such wouldn't actually be able to be proportional to said aliens. So even if they were one inch tall, their planes would be about as big as our stuff has to be. The idea that Earth would end up being backwards, divided, and provincial while the initial colonizing effort encountered hostile aliens and geared up accordingly is the only thing about the book I really bought. __________________ "Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire." ~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

11-16-2006, 03:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Moontayle Romo is a manwhore Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2,596	OK, just got done reading this and overall I found it very enjoyable, but like many of you I question why it was nominated for a Hugo. It's very simplistic, almost to the point of catering down to the masses and doesn't bring anything new to the sci-fi table that hasn't been expanded upon before. It's almost like the author took his favorite sci-fi elements and made a novel about it. On the whole I'd have to give it 3/5 stars. It worth the read, but you'd probably only ever read it once before shelving it until you could pass it off to someone else. __________________ WoW - Lieutenant-Commander Ignitz, 70 Gnome Warrior, Shadow Council, Devstyle, Retired

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11-11-2006, 08:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zarcath Lead Farmer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5,076 +12 Internets	Alright guess I'll go ahead and start. I thought the book was pretty good, though it seemed more on the short and sweet side. Reminded me of Ender's Game, on more then one level, not just the sci-fi alien war connection. The book was easy to read. Seemed like it would be a book i'd have read in high school. The book is softcore sci-fi, along the lines of Star Wars/Trek. Could have used more hardcore sci-fi. I think he should have wrote more about his time in the field, the battles were usually pretty quick. Overall I think if someone like Stackpole or Allston might have done better with the material. The cloned bodies were interesting. If you were to record all of your memories/personality traits onto a HD and then plugged it into another body, would it be you? or would there still be something missing? Kind of a Ghost in the Shell thing to it. All of the medical upgrades sounded plausible, like the smartblood. Do you think synthetic human bodies would ever be accepted in real life? We have synthetic body parts already.

11-15-2006, 06:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Zarcath Lead Farmer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5,076 +12 Internets	Yeah, I didn't have a hard time believing that earth is considered backwards hicktown. I don't understand how one faction could make the leap to interstellar travel. Did some alien craft crashland in a small nation that exploited it? With all the super aliens roaming I don't see how earth didn't get wiped out on first contact.

11-16-2006, 09:09 AM	#8 (permalink)
Khorum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 4,435 -28 Internets	I enjoyed the book immensely, although it was a little short. It's practically Hugo-fodder if you know what the award tends to lean on---consider that Starship Troopers, Ender's Game and even A Fire Upon The Deep were all about the perspective of unwitting citizen-soldiers in an alien war, it falls into the pattern. The book was quick, reads like a screenplay, and was amusing although the science was a little thin. Scalzi's angle that most of the CDF's technology is stolen/adapted from aliens is pretty plausible imo, considering Vinge's Technological Singularity expansion on Hurzweil's concepts: namely that technology becomes commoditized to the point where it becomes as culture-neutral as mathematics, and just as easy to steal. I came in expecting much worse for a first novel actually, but I was pleasantly surprised. I did get the VERY strong impression that the novel started life as a script though, Scalzi does a lot of his development and exposition via dialogue and every resolution feels aggressive and physical enough to be on film or TV.

11-16-2006, 05:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
apan Deranged Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 152 +0 Internets	I thought the book was okey but nothing extraordinary. I should probably mention that I'm not a avid sci-fi reader, this is only my second sci-fi book or something like that. The book started of slow in my opinion and I didn't like the first third of the book - at all. After that it starts to pick up and I started to develop at least a little sense of the characters and the last part of the book is actually pretty good. In my opinion he spends too much time laying out specifications of technology that would have been been better used describing the scenery and the environment. Also maybe it's just me but I thought the book was overly "witty". The only part that really had me laughing was when he named his "BrainPal" asshole, for some reason... I agree about the the characters "not acting their age" and I don't understand how the author didn't add some cynical and grumpy old man. If he really wanted to be witty that would have been presented a ton of opportunity. Some short remarks, might add a bit more later.