A Song of Ice and Fire

Nehrak · 10-23-2006, 11:52 AM

I'm totally calling dibs on this one. :P

I talk about this with one of the site admins of westeros.org from time to time. It seems to me that GRRM likes to put a ton of little teases and hints that you can only find if you read between the lines (see the blacked out spoiler(?) part below, for one example).

Anyway, thread rules: Spoilers are allowed (and actually encouraged), provided you do the relevant work to hide them. In other words, don't clog the forums up with a bunch of linefeeds.

It's not hard to highlight the relevant parts and change your color. Honest.

So, let's begin with a couple random blurbs as of the end of A Feast for Crows!

Who else feels that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are Jon Snow's true mother and father? This is one topic that took me a while to accept, and Martin seems bent on trying to trick people into following another line of thinking with each book. Yet there seems to be fairly strong, but very subtle evidence (Eddard Stark's flashback of Lyanna's death) that points toward Daenerys having a half-nephew. Which then leads to the question: Will Jon end up as one of the heads of the dragon?

Cersei: Owned? I'm personally of the opinion that Littlefinger may have had something to do with the installment of the latest High Septon. I can't recall what led me down that line of thinking, and I don't have the books on me to be 100% sure of this.

Buckaroo Banzai · 10-23-2006, 12:16 PM

I loved, LOVED the first 3 books of this. So much so, that I would put them up there as probably my favorite books (crazy I know).
But I haven't read a Feast For Crows yet. I was hoping to hold off until he finishes the series, and just read the rest in one fell swoop.
But at the rate he puts these out, I don't think I will be able to hold out.
It's such a catch 22 on waiting for a series like this. One one hand, I want to devour everything as soon as it's out, even if it's years between books and I forget all the subtle drama. On the other hand, it would be so great to read these all the way through for the first time, with everything completed so it just flowed and made for the perfect reading experience.
Anyway, these books are utterly fantastic.

Faltigoth · 10-23-2006, 12:37 PM

Yeah, for me these books are THE fantasy books of the modern era. To be a lover of fantasy fiction and not to have read this should be a crime punishable by jail time. Damn, they are that good.

Westeros.org is the shit for discussing them too, lots of nifty info there, spoiler chapters from A Dance with Dragons, little tidbits and teasers from the man himself all compiled in one place.

And to add to your original spoiler text, Nehrak -

I think the question of Rhaegar and Lyanna all comes back to the Tower of Joy and what happened there when Ned Stark and Howland Reed fought through the three greatest knights of that era to get to Lyanna. Like, why the hell were Gerold HighTower, Arthur Dayne, and I can't remember the third one now for the life of me, guarding Lyanna Stark in the middle of nowhere on the north edge of Dorne, when Robert was smashing everything and taking over the kingdom? For God's sake, they left the King with Jaime Lannister and Rhaegar by himself to get killed by Robert. They had to be down there for a reason - and the only thing I can think of was that Lyanna was carrying Rhaegar's child. Or, wouldn't this be evil, his father's child. The Mad Targaryen was a crazy sick son of a bitch.

What really happened at the Tower of Joy is the key to Lyanna and Rhaegar and Jon Snow -- well, one of them, there are a few other feelers out there -- and the only person who knows that is Howland Reed (and possibly Reed's two kids who are with Bran north of the wall). We know Howland Reed isn't going to ever be a viewpoint, but remember, Maege Mormont got sent to see him by Robb Stark before the Red Wedding, so we might see Howland Reed sooner rather than later. And Bran could find out too; the Reed kids seemed shocked that he didn't know more about Lyanna and Rhaegar and Robert and the tragedy that led to.

God, I can't wait for the next one. It is such sweet blissful torture.

Insiderr · 10-23-2006, 12:54 PM

Its "A Song of Ice and Fire". At least get the thread title right heh.

Asmadai · 10-23-2006, 01:25 PM

Finally, a live version of ASoI&F thread.

Spoilers: I'm one of those who doesn't believe that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. It might end up being true in the end, but I just don't think it's true yet. Faltigoth does bring up a good point about them guarding the Tower of Joy so much, but it all comes down to whether or not Aerys put up with the 'abduction'. Remember, Rhaegar left Elia (his wife) and disappeared with Lyanna. Whether or not the Kingsguard would stand for this and guard Rhaegar regardless of him having run off with another woman and leaving his wife and children back at Kings Landing is beyond us at this point. It hasn't been said yet specifically how Lyanna died has it? I mean we know he found her in a bed of blood, clutching a wreath of flowers or something, and she told Ned the secret that haunted him for so long - I'm guessing we are to assume she died from childbirth?

How about 'black hand' who just took the Reed kids and Bran beyond the wall. I'm sooo thinking that is Benjen Stark or Benjen Stark reborn. One of the two. I'm almost certain that in A Game of Thrones, something is mentioned about Benjen having a black hand, but i'm not certain.

Cersei got exactly what she deserved. God I was just waiting for all that bad karma to come back and bite her on the ass. Some people think that Jaime's actions with the letter meant he isn't coming to save her, but I think otherwise. I don't think he's going to hang his sister out to dry just yet. Unless somehow the 'champion' guy that Cersei's latest Master of Whispers has (which is believed to be Gregor come back to life) can somehow save her ass, I don't see any other way for her to get out other than Jaime.

And the rumor that Sandor is still alive, and merely working as the gravedigger for the monestary/church place that Brianna passed thru...

It's been said by GRRM that "A Dance of Dragons" does not neccessarily mean that Dany will be making her charge into Westeros this book, but the only other time that "The Dance of Dragons" was mentioned, was the first big shitfest of House Targaryen - a civil war among siblings that happend due from a failed succession.

King Viserys had 3 children, 2 sons and a daughter. The sons died, so without a male heir, Viserys wanted to make the daughter Rhaenyra his heir. She was included in everything, and was being raised to be the heir. So Viserys remarries (A Hightower of all people) and she pops out 3 sons and a daughter, the oldest being named Aegon. After Viserys died, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard pronounced Aegon as king instead of Rhaenyra. Both children had alot of people supporting them on both sides. For reasons undisclosed so far, Rhaenyra was put to death as a traitor at the hands of her brother Aegon II, who had her eaten by his dragon as her son Aegon, watched. Later still, Aegon II died, and was succeeded by his nephew, Rhaenyra's son, who would reign as Aegon III, also called Aegon Dragonbane.

How this can possibly relate or tie in with the current fucky succession going on i'm not sure, but still interesting. Maybe Edric Storm (the kid who was staying with Stannis on Dragonstone) will end up being the rallying point for the opposing forces to take back King's Landing? Who knows.

By the way, if you haven't read the 'Tyrion' preview that's on GRRM's website - do so. It's awesome.

Tabris · 10-23-2006, 02:05 PM

I refuse to read any of these large fantasy epics until they're all done and every single book is published.

Nebuchadnezzar · 10-23-2006, 02:09 PM

Time out. Time out. How about we redo the spoilers for this thread? Anything for a book that has been published can be regular texted, but true spoilers from unpublished novels yet to come will be in black?

I'd rather not have to cursor over gigantic post after gigantic post and if we hold up to the rules above then EVERYTHING of discussion will be black but "gee I love Martin". It just doesn't work.

Asmadai · 10-23-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar

Time out. Time out. How about we redo the spoilers for this thread? Anything for a book that has been published can be regular texted, but true spoilers from unpublished novels yet to come will be in black?

I'd rather not have to cursor over gigantic post after gigantic post and if we hold up to the rules above then EVERYTHING of discussion will be black but "gee I love Martin". It just doesn't work.

I'm just following the rules we were given. And I talk alot when it comes to this topic.

I say we should still black out spoilers though. Someone didn't in the other ASoI&F thread in the general forums, and I stumbled upon shit I shouldn't have read before I even read the series. Didn't totally ruin it for me, due to me being a huge herb head and having a lack of memory, but I still kinda wish i'd hadn't seen it heh.

Hateyou · 10-23-2006, 04:04 PM

Please fix the thread title, or Shagga will feed your manhood to the goats.

Excellent series, my personal favorite. Book 4 was fairly slow and boring compared to the first 3, sadly. I hope book 5 delivers like the first 3 did. If Martin pulls a Robert Jordan I'm seriously gona cry.

Any one who hasn't read this series, and is a fan of fantasy, needs to pick this up. It's a must read for any fan imo. Just stick with it through the first 100-150 pages, Martin introduces a ton of characters right off the bat, and it can get a bit bogged down and confusing. It's well worth it though.

Jadaki · 10-23-2006, 05:02 PM

By far my favorite series (fix the thread title though). A Storm of Swords is probably my favorite fantasy book ever. I liked AFFC but I was really missing my favorite characters. I absolutly can't wait until ADWD to see Tyrion, Jon and Danny return to POV characters. I have read the teaser chapters so far and they just get me even more excited to see what is going to happen next.

I heave heard there is going to be a new POV character introduced, any speculation as to who it's going to be?

Faltigoth · 10-23-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadaki

By far my favorite series (fix the thread title though). A Storm of Swords is probably my favorite fantasy book ever. I liked AFFC but I was really missing my favorite characters. I absolutly can't wait until ADWD to see Tyrion, Jon and Danny return to POV characters. I have read the teaser chapters so far and they just get me even more excited to see what is going to happen next.

I heave heard there is going to be a new POV character introduced, any speculation as to who it's going to be?

Black text: Based on what GRRM has said, its someone we've seen before. The only person we've seen before, who lost their PoV, is Theon Greyjoy - who, currently, is being flayed inch by inch in the Dreadfort if rumors are to be believed. Maybe Maege Mormont, too, who very likely doesn't know what happened at the Red Wedding and is still following Robb Stark's last command. Who I would love to see, Benjen Stark, Howland Reed, or Littlefinger, but there is no chance of any of those three, they know too much.

Hateyou · 10-23-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltigoth

Black text: Based on what GRRM has said, its someone we've seen before. The only person we've seen before, who lost their PoV, is Theon Greyjoy - who, currently, is being flayed inch by inch in the Dreadfort if rumors are to be believed. Maybe Maege Mormont, too, who very likely doesn't know what happened at the Red Wedding and is still following Robb Stark's last command. Who I would love to see, Benjen Stark, Howland Reed, or Littlefinger, but there is no chance of any of those three, they know too much.

It could also be Rickon or Osha.

Kuro · 10-23-2006, 07:39 PM

I'm just waiting for the last book to be the entire world exploding in a ball of flame, negating everything everyone struggles to do.

Soul-crushing failure ftw!

<3 the series.

Cuppycake · 10-30-2006, 12:36 PM

I just FINALLY bought the first book in the series. As soon as I'm done with what I'm reading now I will start it. Hopefully it will live up to the hype

10-23-2006, 11:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
Nehrak Crankier than the Kong Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: DigiPen Posts: 938	A Song of Ice and Fire I'm totally calling dibs on this one. :P I talk about this with one of the site admins of westeros.org from time to time. It seems to me that GRRM likes to put a ton of little teases and hints that you can only find if you read between the lines (see the blacked out spoiler(?) part below, for one example). Anyway, thread rules: Spoilers are allowed (and actually encouraged), provided you do the relevant work to hide them. In other words, don't clog the forums up with a bunch of linefeeds. It's not hard to highlight the relevant parts and change your color. Honest. So, let's begin with a couple random blurbs as of the end of A Feast for Crows! Who else feels that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are Jon Snow's true mother and father? This is one topic that took me a while to accept, and Martin seems bent on trying to trick people into following another line of thinking with each book. Yet there seems to be fairly strong, but very subtle evidence (Eddard Stark's flashback of Lyanna's death) that points toward Daenerys having a half-nephew. Which then leads to the question: Will Jon end up as one of the heads of the dragon? Cersei: Owned? I'm personally of the opinion that Littlefinger may have had something to do with the installment of the latest High Septon. I can't recall what led me down that line of thinking, and I don't have the books on me to be 100% sure of this. Last edited by Nehrak : 10-23-2006 at 11:41 PM. Reason: Fixing the title. :p

10-23-2006, 02:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Nebuchadnezzar Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,756 +1 Internets	Time out. Time out. How about we redo the spoilers for this thread? Anything for a book that has been published can be regular texted, but true spoilers from unpublished novels yet to come will be in black? I'd rather not have to cursor over gigantic post after gigantic post and if we hold up to the rules above then EVERYTHING of discussion will be black but "gee I love Martin". It just doesn't work. __________________ I eat grass like an ox and shat like a fox.

10-23-2006, 07:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kuro Support Beam Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,527 +20 Internets	I'm just waiting for the last book to be the entire world exploding in a ball of flame, negating everything everyone struggles to do. Soul-crushing failure ftw! <3 the series. Last edited by Kuro : 10-23-2006 at 08:00 PM.

10-30-2006, 12:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
Cuppycake Plugged In Like Neo Join Date: May 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,114	I just FINALLY bought the first book in the series. As soon as I'm done with what I'm reading now I will start it. Hopefully it will live up to the hype __________________ Metaplace - Nothing I say here represents my employer, legalblahdiddyblah.

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10-23-2006, 12:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Buckaroo Banzai Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 181 +4 Internets	I loved, LOVED the first 3 books of this. So much so, that I would put them up there as probably my favorite books (crazy I know). But I haven't read a Feast For Crows yet. I was hoping to hold off until he finishes the series, and just read the rest in one fell swoop. But at the rate he puts these out, I don't think I will be able to hold out. It's such a catch 22 on waiting for a series like this. One one hand, I want to devour everything as soon as it's out, even if it's years between books and I forget all the subtle drama. On the other hand, it would be so great to read these all the way through for the first time, with everything completed so it just flowed and made for the perfect reading experience. Anyway, these books are utterly fantastic.

10-23-2006, 12:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
Faltigoth Army Football forever!! Who needs wins, anyway?!? Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 781 +0 Internets	Yeah, for me these books are THE fantasy books of the modern era. To be a lover of fantasy fiction and not to have read this should be a crime punishable by jail time. Damn, they are that good. Westeros.org is the shit for discussing them too, lots of nifty info there, spoiler chapters from A Dance with Dragons, little tidbits and teasers from the man himself all compiled in one place. And to add to your original spoiler text, Nehrak - I think the question of Rhaegar and Lyanna all comes back to the Tower of Joy and what happened there when Ned Stark and Howland Reed fought through the three greatest knights of that era to get to Lyanna. Like, why the hell were Gerold HighTower, Arthur Dayne, and I can't remember the third one now for the life of me, guarding Lyanna Stark in the middle of nowhere on the north edge of Dorne, when Robert was smashing everything and taking over the kingdom? For God's sake, they left the King with Jaime Lannister and Rhaegar by himself to get killed by Robert. They had to be down there for a reason - and the only thing I can think of was that Lyanna was carrying Rhaegar's child. Or, wouldn't this be evil, his father's child. The Mad Targaryen was a crazy sick son of a bitch. What really happened at the Tower of Joy is the key to Lyanna and Rhaegar and Jon Snow -- well, one of them, there are a few other feelers out there -- and the only person who knows that is Howland Reed (and possibly Reed's two kids who are with Bran north of the wall). We know Howland Reed isn't going to ever be a viewpoint, but remember, Maege Mormont got sent to see him by Robb Stark before the Red Wedding, so we might see Howland Reed sooner rather than later. And Bran could find out too; the Reed kids seemed shocked that he didn't know more about Lyanna and Rhaegar and Robert and the tragedy that led to. God, I can't wait for the next one. It is such sweet blissful torture.

10-23-2006, 12:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
Insiderr Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 163 +0 Internets	Its "A Song of Ice and Fire". At least get the thread title right heh.

10-23-2006, 01:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Asmadai Monolith - Area 52 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sealab Posts: 2,458	Finally, a live version of ASoI&F thread. Spoilers: I'm one of those who doesn't believe that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. It might end up being true in the end, but I just don't think it's true yet. Faltigoth does bring up a good point about them guarding the Tower of Joy so much, but it all comes down to whether or not Aerys put up with the 'abduction'. Remember, Rhaegar left Elia (his wife) and disappeared with Lyanna. Whether or not the Kingsguard would stand for this and guard Rhaegar regardless of him having run off with another woman and leaving his wife and children back at Kings Landing is beyond us at this point. It hasn't been said yet specifically how Lyanna died has it? I mean we know he found her in a bed of blood, clutching a wreath of flowers or something, and she told Ned the secret that haunted him for so long - I'm guessing we are to assume she died from childbirth? How about 'black hand' who just took the Reed kids and Bran beyond the wall. I'm sooo thinking that is Benjen Stark or Benjen Stark reborn. One of the two. I'm almost certain that in A Game of Thrones, something is mentioned about Benjen having a black hand, but i'm not certain. Cersei got exactly what she deserved. God I was just waiting for all that bad karma to come back and bite her on the ass. Some people think that Jaime's actions with the letter meant he isn't coming to save her, but I think otherwise. I don't think he's going to hang his sister out to dry just yet. Unless somehow the 'champion' guy that Cersei's latest Master of Whispers has (which is believed to be Gregor come back to life) can somehow save her ass, I don't see any other way for her to get out other than Jaime. And the rumor that Sandor is still alive, and merely working as the gravedigger for the monestary/church place that Brianna passed thru... It's been said by GRRM that "A Dance of Dragons" does not neccessarily mean that Dany will be making her charge into Westeros this book, but the only other time that "The Dance of Dragons" was mentioned, was the first big shitfest of House Targaryen - a civil war among siblings that happend due from a failed succession. King Viserys had 3 children, 2 sons and a daughter. The sons died, so without a male heir, Viserys wanted to make the daughter Rhaenyra his heir. She was included in everything, and was being raised to be the heir. So Viserys remarries (A Hightower of all people) and she pops out 3 sons and a daughter, the oldest being named Aegon. After Viserys died, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard pronounced Aegon as king instead of Rhaenyra. Both children had alot of people supporting them on both sides. For reasons undisclosed so far, Rhaenyra was put to death as a traitor at the hands of her brother Aegon II, who had her eaten by his dragon as her son Aegon, watched. Later still, Aegon II died, and was succeeded by his nephew, Rhaenyra's son, who would reign as Aegon III, also called Aegon Dragonbane. How this can possibly relate or tie in with the current fucky succession going on i'm not sure, but still interesting. Maybe Edric Storm (the kid who was staying with Stannis on Dragonstone) will end up being the rallying point for the opposing forces to take back King's Landing? Who knows. By the way, if you haven't read the 'Tyrion' preview that's on GRRM's website - do so. It's awesome.

10-23-2006, 02:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tabris Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,399 -4 Internets	I refuse to read any of these large fantasy epics until they're all done and every single book is published.

10-23-2006, 04:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
Hateyou Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,932	Please fix the thread title, or Shagga will feed your manhood to the goats. Excellent series, my personal favorite. Book 4 was fairly slow and boring compared to the first 3, sadly. I hope book 5 delivers like the first 3 did. If Martin pulls a Robert Jordan I'm seriously gona cry. Any one who hasn't read this series, and is a fan of fantasy, needs to pick this up. It's a must read for any fan imo. Just stick with it through the first 100-150 pages, Martin introduces a ton of characters right off the bat, and it can get a bit bogged down and confusing. It's well worth it though.

10-23-2006, 05:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jadaki This space for rent! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,253 -3 Internets	By far my favorite series (fix the thread title though). A Storm of Swords is probably my favorite fantasy book ever. I liked AFFC but I was really missing my favorite characters. I absolutly can't wait until ADWD to see Tyrion, Jon and Danny return to POV characters. I have read the teaser chapters so far and they just get me even more excited to see what is going to happen next. I heave heard there is going to be a new POV character introduced, any speculation as to who it's going to be?