Historical/Warfare Nonfic

Tirinal · 10-26-2006, 03:37 PM

I've been on one of my historical binges lately, having gotten somewhat tired of modern fiction. Thought we could get a thread going if there are any history voyeurs in the audience. Author leads are welcome, as always.

I just reread Shirer's infamous Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which is fun from a purely literary perspective even if it's riddled with fallacies. Crappy historian, decent war reporter. I also finished Beevor's Stalingrad, which is probably the best account recently written. It's a very British way of looking at it, but it's still among the best. I'm currently reading through Makers of Modern Strategy, which is an edited set of classical essays on warfare development by players like Machiavelli, Clausewitz and Liddell Hart. Good introduction to the length and breadth of tactical evolution and classy enough to make fun of Napoleon in the editor's introduction.

brekk · 10-26-2006, 04:45 PM

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies

excellent book.

Frax · 10-26-2006, 05:01 PM

Check these out:

With the Old Breed - by E. B. Sledge (Autobiographical about Marines in the South Pacific, very brutal and often hailed as the best account of the on the ground fighting)

About Face - By Colonel David Hackworth (autobiography)

An Army at Dawn - by Rick Atkinson (Historical non fiction account of the allied invasion of africa in 1942)

Tirinal · 10-26-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frax

About Face - By Colonel David Hackworth (autobiography)

Ooo. I didn't even know he had died.

Quote:

An Army at Dawn - by Rick Atkinson (Historical non fiction account of the allied invasion of africa in 1942)

I've read An Army at Dawn. I'm still unsure why everyone keeps giving awards to Atkinson. I mean, he's decent but...eh. Might be an acquired taste.

Eomer · 10-26-2006, 06:09 PM

Anyone recommend some good books about WWI + II, and the history that preceded them? I'm not too interested in super, in-depth books that take 500 pages to cover a single battle or incident, something more overview-ish is what I'm looking for.

And yeah, Guns Germs and Steel is an amazing book, even if a lot of Diamond's conclusions are quite controversial amongst anthropologists. Collapse is also very good, though perhaps not as good of a read. He's an excellent writer than can cover pretty indepth, boring topics, but still have it come across as quite interesting and fresh. He doesn't use ridiculously obscure, fancy, 20 dollar words all over the place just to prove something.

Khorum · 10-26-2006, 06:25 PM

David McCullough's 1776 is an awesome presentation of the American Revolution, McCullough goes into the human events during the revolution and about the fatal compromises and failings that eventually poisoned the young republic and still haunts us to this day (slavery, faith and the press). The book goes to some length to present the British position at the time too, a great cautionary study on the idle arrogance of an unchallenged superpower and how their inability to empathize with the rebels doomed the war. McCullough won the Pulitzer price twice.

Loki · 10-26-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eomer

Anyone recommend some good books about WWI + II, and the history that preceded them? I'm not too interested in super, in-depth books that take 500 pages to cover a single battle or incident, something more overview-ish is what I'm looking for.

And yeah, Guns Germs and Steel is an amazing book, even if a lot of Diamond's conclusions are quite controversial amongst anthropologists. Collapse is also very good, though perhaps not as good of a read. He's an excellent writer than can cover pretty indepth, boring topics, but still have it come across as quite interesting and fresh. He doesn't use ridiculously obscure, fancy, 20 dollar words all over the place just to prove something.

Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich would probably be up your alley, if you haven't already read it.

stehle · 10-27-2006, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brekk

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies

excellent book.

I'd second that.

Also for a non-fiction account of warfare-- there is always "Black Hawk Down".

apan · 10-27-2006, 10:12 AM

United States and the Middle East: 1914 to 9/11
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursede...y%20-%20Modern

Not sure if it's available as an actual book. Excellent course anyhow, not too "heavy" and very interesting. It's not a "conspiracy" book, he rather presents the facts leading up to 9 / 11.

I've been working through this course recently:

Long 19th Century: European History from 1789 to 1917
http://www.teach12.com/ttc/assets/co...y%20-%20Modern

It's pretty interesting but he can get a little to detailed in his political analysis which personally doesn't intrigue me much.

I also read a Swedish biography on Napoleon Bonaparte which was also very good. Napoleon is a very fascinating person.

Another book I've been trying to work through is a pocket book on Stalin, it's not that good though. Too many names to keep track of and he spends a lot of time analyzing his relations to what feels like a million people. Can look up the title if anyone's interested.

I started reading a book on the battle of Stalingrad but again it's a bit too detailed for my taste. Keeping track of the movement of 20 different divisions made me put it on the shelf - maybe I'll finish it one day.

Books I plan on reading:

Some biography on Alexander - anyone got some tips?
History of 20th century Europe.
Overview of the American civil war.

Other books I'm considering reading just for fun:
Mein kampf if I can find a translation
The bible

Bralkan · 10-28-2006, 06:16 AM

I'd recommend The Peloponnesian War

Zarcath · 10-28-2006, 06:38 AM

Band of Brothers the book!

Opulis · 10-28-2006, 05:07 PM

I'll have to add my favorite of Guns, Germs and Steel to an already going list of other.

Faltigoth · 10-29-2006, 06:59 PM

I just finished "The Killer Angels" about Gettysburg from Michael Shaara. Great book, tells the story of the battle in 'George RR Martin-esque' style with different chapters being from the POV of the different major players in the battle (Longstreet, Lee, Chamberlain, etc).

Was a nice, fast read.

AngryGerbil · 10-29-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eomer

Anyone recommend some good books about WWI + II, and the history that preceded them? I'm not too interested in super, in-depth books that take 500 pages to cover a single battle or incident, something more overview-ish is what I'm looking for.

The American Heritage History of World War (I-II). They get into pretty good detail without going too retardedly far. I've read a number of books on WWI-II and these were the best general overviews.

(For some reason I can't find the WW II one on Amazon. There's a "picture" history and a "new history" but not the straight up "history of" one that I read. The "new history" one by Ambrose is probably similar though.)

Vietnam: A History by Stanley Karnow is the best super-detailed book on Vietnam I've ever read also. It really helped me understand why we did not "win".

Lhon · 11-02-2006, 09:48 PM

I recommend The Conquest of Gaul, and The Civil War, by Julius Caesar.

10-26-2006, 03:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tirinal Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 721 +0 Internets	Historical/Warfare Nonfic I've been on one of my historical binges lately, having gotten somewhat tired of modern fiction. Thought we could get a thread going if there are any history voyeurs in the audience. Author leads are welcome, as always. I just reread Shirer's infamous Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which is fun from a purely literary perspective even if it's riddled with fallacies. Crappy historian, decent war reporter. I also finished Beevor's Stalingrad, which is probably the best account recently written. It's a very British way of looking at it, but it's still among the best. I'm currently reading through Makers of Modern Strategy, which is an edited set of classical essays on warfare development by players like Machiavelli, Clausewitz and Liddell Hart. Good introduction to the length and breadth of tactical evolution and classy enough to make fun of Napoleon in the editor's introduction.

10-26-2006, 05:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
Frax Not So Hopey Changey Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Axis of Evil Posts: 2,510	Check these out: With the Old Breed - by E. B. Sledge (Autobiographical about Marines in the South Pacific, very brutal and often hailed as the best account of the on the ground fighting) About Face - By Colonel David Hackworth (autobiography) An Army at Dawn - by Rick Atkinson (Historical non fiction account of the allied invasion of africa in 1942) __________________ Barack Obama. Same Liberal Bullshit, New Liberal Packaging.

10-28-2006, 06:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bralkan Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 2,118 -1 Internets	I'd recommend The Peloponnesian War __________________ We're all idiots. http://nottheparrot.blogspot.com

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10-26-2006, 06:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
Eomer Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,518 +25 Internets	Anyone recommend some good books about WWI + II, and the history that preceded them? I'm not too interested in super, in-depth books that take 500 pages to cover a single battle or incident, something more overview-ish is what I'm looking for. And yeah, Guns Germs and Steel is an amazing book, even if a lot of Diamond's conclusions are quite controversial amongst anthropologists. Collapse is also very good, though perhaps not as good of a read. He's an excellent writer than can cover pretty indepth, boring topics, but still have it come across as quite interesting and fresh. He doesn't use ridiculously obscure, fancy, 20 dollar words all over the place just to prove something.

10-26-2006, 06:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
Khorum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 4,435 -28 Internets	David McCullough's 1776 is an awesome presentation of the American Revolution, McCullough goes into the human events during the revolution and about the fatal compromises and failings that eventually poisoned the young republic and still haunts us to this day (slavery, faith and the press). The book goes to some length to present the British position at the time too, a great cautionary study on the idle arrogance of an unchallenged superpower and how their inability to empathize with the rebels doomed the war. McCullough won the Pulitzer price twice.

10-27-2006, 10:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
apan Deranged Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 152 +0 Internets	United States and the Middle East: 1914 to 9/11 http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursede...y%20-%20Modern Not sure if it's available as an actual book. Excellent course anyhow, not too "heavy" and very interesting. It's not a "conspiracy" book, he rather presents the facts leading up to 9 / 11. I've been working through this course recently: Long 19th Century: European History from 1789 to 1917 http://www.teach12.com/ttc/assets/co...y%20-%20Modern It's pretty interesting but he can get a little to detailed in his political analysis which personally doesn't intrigue me much. I also read a Swedish biography on Napoleon Bonaparte which was also very good. Napoleon is a very fascinating person. Another book I've been trying to work through is a pocket book on Stalin, it's not that good though. Too many names to keep track of and he spends a lot of time analyzing his relations to what feels like a million people. Can look up the title if anyone's interested. I started reading a book on the battle of Stalingrad but again it's a bit too detailed for my taste. Keeping track of the movement of 20 different divisions made me put it on the shelf - maybe I'll finish it one day. Books I plan on reading: Some biography on Alexander - anyone got some tips? History of 20th century Europe. Overview of the American civil war. Other books I'm considering reading just for fun: Mein kampf if I can find a translation The bible

10-28-2006, 06:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
Zarcath Lead Farmer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5,076 +12 Internets	Band of Brothers the book!

10-28-2006, 05:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
Opulis brrrl Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: panhandle of san francisco Posts: 333 -2 Internets	I'll have to add my favorite of Guns, Germs and Steel to an already going list of other.

10-29-2006, 06:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
Faltigoth Army Football forever!! Who needs wins, anyway?!? Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 781 +0 Internets	I just finished "The Killer Angels" about Gettysburg from Michael Shaara. Great book, tells the story of the battle in 'George RR Martin-esque' style with different chapters being from the POV of the different major players in the battle (Longstreet, Lee, Chamberlain, etc). Was a nice, fast read.

11-02-2006, 09:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
Lhon Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 403 -1 Internets	I recommend The Conquest of Gaul, and The Civil War, by Julius Caesar.