A Song of Ice and Fire (Released Spoilers)

[Coren]

Originally Posted by Korioni

Anyway, good writers incorporate things such as emotion, suspense, action... Good writers make you empathize with the characters. ASoIaF uses none of these.

This baffles me and makes me wonder how you're even reading the same series to be honest.

ASoIaF is one of the few series that has so gotten me emotionally involved with the characters, missing days of sleep in a row anxious to find out what happens next, feeling like I really know and emphathize with the characters with so little effort, by showing us instead of telling us about it. (He didn't need to tell us Ned was an honorable man; right away I knew he was by the actions GRRM showed us, for instance).

It's the only series I've ever read that I yelled with anger at one part, (and threw the book heh), and stood up and cheered aloud later because the fucking bastard who instigated the previous event was dead.

[Simas]

Maybe I'm a dick but if you enjoy Drizzt novels yet do not find the characters in ASoIaF compelling then I really dont care about your critical opinion.

Its like someone saying they like Fast and the Furious but not Bullit.

[Schatze]

Real emotion and sympathy are clearly tales of young men, with a shadowed past, who are visited by some mysterious... Visitor. Their humble, lonely lives are changed forever as they fight to save a world destined for ruin.

Also plenty of hot elven ass.

He either has no taste or is trolling.

Hound? Hated fucker, beast, a dog of a cruel man. Delights in his infamy, yet despite himself finds himself acting the true knight more and more. A tortured past of cruelty that makes mock of his ideals. No more bitter a cynic than a disillusioned idealist. Yet, despite himself, he finds himself acting very knightly. Where that goes, who knows? There're some obvious guesses, but hell, he may even be dead.

Jaime is a motherfucker. No wait, he's a sister fucker. While he's not busy penetrating Cersei, he's defenestrating small boys. You learn more of his past, how some of his actions were truly justified. The golden boy. Yet, a bit of Brienne's dogged devotion and sense of obligation rubs off on him. Kingslayer, born with mocking arrogance, has now become a public badge of shame and expiation. It was also the one right thing he's really done until that point.

Tyrion. Clever, witty, good natured. A dwarf, who is constantly mocked and shatted on, but is always on hand to clean up messes. Won't even bother trying to thumbnail Tyrion + his father + his wife/the whores. Eventually, he finally bites back. Whether his bitterness has overcome his good nature is up in the air.

Cersei. A cunt.

Those are just thumbnail sketches of some of the characters. Not even any Starks, none of the political intrigue, the changing seasons, shifting factions, deaths, etc.

Characterization is one thing GRRM does a lot better than most authors in the genre. I think your problem is you don't want (within reason) real characters.

I am getting pissed about the wait, though. AFFC also told me he's having trouble getting from where he is, to where he wants to end up. I'll buy his next, but if it doesn't deliver, I'll put him on the Jordan list. Not that anything Jordan has ever written has been as good, but, y'know.

[Korioni]

Originally Posted by Korioni

R.A. Salvadore's a hack who uses the same formula over and over again but his books are fun to read anyway,

Ok so, I wasn't going to post in this thread again cause honestly, who am I trying to persuade here? But then I get this -internet a week later:

You like Salvatore, but not Martin? Your opinion is your own, but damn that's fucked up.

Good fucking hell, how can I not respond to this? My question to you is how the fuck did you manage to take one phrase out of my entire sentence which itself contradicts that one phrase and write out that bullshit for me personally?

Salvatore is not good. He is a hack on levels previously unknown to man. The formula he applies in every book is, "main character dies, friends come to terms, main character miraculously comes back alive". Every time, without fail. I said I enjoyed them but that was merely a reference to his play-by-play combat scenes. It's very visual and therefore relatively engrossing. Other than that. Bad. Very very bad.



I'm done.


again.

[Sharmai]

I like Song of Fire and Ice but I am only starting storm of swords so my opinion is limited. That said I also liked the Drizzit books but I don't think drizzit was better. Maybe the early stuff and actually The Two Swords isn't that bad. I haven't read the latest book The Orc King but if it continues with the struggle of the Orc's to become civilized and accepted into the world that could be an epic storyline for R.A. Salvatore to persue.

Also the cleric quintet was pretty good if not a little cliched.

Overall I'd say I would place Discworld, Alterd Carbon, Sherlock Holmes, Ender's Game/Ender's Shadow for it's parallel and maybe the Desden Files alongside SoFI. Really they are all great books to me but in many different categories.

One think that does irk me sometimes is that SoFI doesn't allow you to become to attached to any character before that character has a dramatic failure of some kind. He constantly tugs are your emotions pulling you up and throwing you back down over and over with multiple characters. I have found myself trying to find a character I can just love to like but most seem to become to "evil" or to "childish" and just turn me way the hell off wishing they would DIAF.


Its good though because in the very next chapter he will have you liking them again at least until their next failure. What irks me though is now I'm starting to become numb to all the characters since they are failing so often. They are becoming too "human" and while that's awesome that he can write at that level its fail for me since I can't feel myself as close to any one of the characters.. (Jon snow still has my hopes up atm but I'm sure hes about to have an epic fuck up or two.)

Tyrion had potential but he keeps falling over his goddamn dick. Fucking idiot. The Starks don't even get me fucking started. Fuck every last one of them except aria fuck her twice. She needs to get her ass over there and become a faceless one right the fuck now and become a badass instead of a. fucking arrogant cunt of a ...


Ok I'm done.....

[Schatze]

By the time you finish the book I think you'll be satisfied with where the characters end up. AFFC doesn't change much, except for a couple of characters, and mostly you'll probably get some pleasure from those events. Except one that may have you throwing stuff at walls.

On the one hand, not everyone is all good, all evil, and people do fuck up. On the other, yeah, it can be a roller coaster.

I don't think there will be any significant changes in paths for a lot of the key players except one big exception. We may get new POVs, but there're some characters by the end of ASOS that I'm pretty confident they're on a firm path.

You'll find out the import of some of those things you specifically mentioned by the end, and get a little enlightenment on why they happened.

[manslayer]

It is Song of Ice and Fire. Not Song of Fire and Ice as many people keep posting!

[Grimmlokk]

There's like one post in the last 6 months getting it wrong.

[Braen]

Well we have to nip it in the bud.

[Chaotic]

[quote=Sharmai;1167168] stuff [quote]



I know what you're saying - but I think you're in for a surprise with a couple of the people you mentioned. It is very roller coaster I suppose, but it's epic writing - look at what they are going through of course things are going to change.

A big failure with fantasy is the flawless hero. I hate that crap. Friedman and Erickson both do it and it turned me off completely.

It's why i'm more inclined towards the malazan / asoiaf. Even your most badass characters are in no way perfect and have their shortcomings / imperfections / demons.


Ashame you're only starting SoS or I could make a couple of points, but don't want to ruin it. Enjoy.

[Simas]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

I like Song of Fire and Ice but I am only starting storm of swords so my opinion is limited.

You're in for a treat.

And then a bit of a let down with Feast.

[Mymn]

I dunno, Feast wasnt so much a let down ( I mean it was a good read) as a s "why the fuck is it split in half?!"

Knowing it was to be one with Dance and not getting it all was what pissed me off. Him taking his sweetfatassfuckingtime getting dance out is really pissin me off.

[Rathgar]

Originally Posted by Mymn

I dunno, Feast wasnt so much a let down ( I mean it was a good read)

I don't think anyone's suggesting that it wasn't a good read, just that when compared to A Storm of Swords, which is hands down one of my favorite novels ever, it wasn't anywhere near as impressive.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by Korioni

Massive fail.

Woa. Are you the Dumar of literature? Or are you just trolling, because I can't figure out which one is more likely.

[Korioni]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Woa. Are you the Dumar of literature? Or are you just trolling, because I can't figure out which one is more likely.

I assume you wouldn't qualify responding to half-month old posts for the sole purpose of forum masturbation as fail?