A Song of Ice and Fire (Released Spoilers) - Page 5

manslayer · 11-01-2006, 07:36 PM

Yeah needs to dictate while on a treadmill!

ChewieTobbacca · 11-01-2006, 11:52 PM

I realize now what a set up AFfC is for the return of the Targaryens. You have Cersei locked up with the kingdom in shambles. Highgarden isn't going to sit around while it get's assaulted by the ironborn. Doran has created a peace with the Lannisters in the hopes of bringing the Targaryens back unnoticed. King's Landing is going to be so very undefendend - of the Kingsguard, one is dead, one is heading to Dorne, one has only one hand, and another is wounded (though I don't believe Loras is really dying or hurt that bad... I almost expect him to show up as Margaery's champion).

It's interesting to note the allegory/parallels this series has had on modern events. A revival of religion in times of despair is an occurence in our world...

And I can only laugh as Cersei is outsmarted by the "fools" around her. It's interesting to note that of the 3 children of Tywin, all of taken traits from him but not all of them. You have Jaime who (was) strong of body and physical ability, but was rash in action. Losing his hand has really given him time to reflect and grow in wisdom and intelligence but has also tarnished his reputation (as though being Kingslayer wasn't enough). Anything he now does for honor is not trusted by people. Cersei on the other hand has the crafty ideas to rule a kingdom, but doesn't understand how to please the people nor keep friends despite all her "tools." And Tyrion is the one with the skills to play the game, but his lack of physical prowess has hurt him.

I do wonder if Davos is really dead... seems unlikely to be killed so randomly.

Oh and it may fun to see why Darkstar wanted Myrcella dead (maybe he's just pissed that his cousin Arthur Dayne was killed by the Lannisters, and a old blood feud needed settling, as well as an ego in the shadow of a great relative)...

Grimmlokk · 11-02-2006, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewieTobbacca

I do wonder if Davos is really dead... seems unlikely to be killed so randomly.

Well at a reading somewhere a good while back, maybe 2+ years now, he read a chapter from Davos PoV where he was captured and on some island. He was taken to talk to the Lord there(forget who, proud people who had all the ancient artifacts and one of the Valyrian Steel family swords. Stannis mentions the guy earlier in the series. I wanna say the Velaryons?). And while the Lord threatens him a little you do not get the impression at all that he will be executed or otherwise killed. He was out trying to rally the sealord types behind Stannis.

I know spoilers supposed to be allowed, but this isn't even on a page somewhere I believe, and not 100% accurate since it was a long time ago I read about it.

Khorum · 11-02-2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChewieTobbacca

I do wonder if Davos is really dead... seems unlikely to be killed so randomly.

SPOILER

Yeah, Davos is not only still alive, he's a POV character in ADwD. GRRM gave a reading of this chapter at convention earlier this year. A transcript of the reading is available at: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=53

Jadaki · 11-02-2006, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khorum

SPOILER

Yeah, Davos is not only still alive, he's a POV character in ADwD. GRRM gave a reading of this chapter at convention earlier this year. A transcript of the reading is available at: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=53

The report from AFFC is that Lord Manderly killed Davos in White Harbour, and in that chapter Davos isn't in White Harbour just yet.

You have to remember that AFFC and ADWD take place at the same time. Davos chapter that was read is likely in the beginning of ADWD. The report of Davos' death was somewhere in the middle of AFFC. So going off that he may be a PoV character, but he might not live through the whole thing.

Yukiri · 11-02-2006, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadaki

You have to remember that AFFC and ADWD take place at the same time.

That little bit is what has me sort of apprehensive about ADWD. It's the happenings and exploits of the people you didnt see in AFFC. Jon, Bran, Stannis, Dany, Tyrion, Davos et all. How many of the cliffhangers from AFFC will be wrapped up? I want to know what happens to Brienne, Ayra, I want to see the trial of Margaery and Cersei and im wondering just how much progression we're going to see once we're "caught up" with the happenings of the missing characters from AFFC. Dont know if i can wait another few years if he doesnt fill in some of these holes..

Khorum · 11-02-2006, 09:25 AM

I can see the Davos POV problem, seeing as how the chapters were just moved to a new book to keep AFFC from being a 2000-page giant.

The POV-inflation will keep growing though, now that he's split one book into two (actually one and a half, considering how anemic AFFC actually was) it opens the way to breaking up the rest of the series into more books, as opposed to restraining the POVs into something manageable. Although as the series winds up, there'll obviously be less and less POVs.

I love the pace of the series, but I sorta wish that there WAS a 5-year jump between the first trilogy and the next books. He couldve worked flashbacks in the narrative and managed the expositions better than with the detailed historical-fiction approach. Now there's a good chance the next 3 books will end up being 4 or 5 books with parallel POVs split up to control publishing costs.

Thing is, GRRM is a pretty prolific writer and he pumps out more work than his average contemporaries, hes got another series hes been writing, the dunk and egg short stories, and even a collaborative work... in his blog he mentions working on a dozen other projects in parallel (in addition to various conventions, awards ceremonies, and moping around his new house) >_<

Faltigoth · 11-02-2006, 09:39 AM

Yukiri, I saw it mentioned somewhere (maybe westeros.org) that Martin planned to take ADWD a little bit past AFfC to wrap up some of what happened at the end of Crows.

ChewieTobbacca · 11-02-2006, 10:10 AM

I figure that in ADWD or the book after, they will have killed many characters/removed them from importance. I can certainly see Davos, Theon, and Asha removed since they don't seem to be of much importance to the story arc anymore. Stannis and Melisandre may be removed one way or another as well.

Nebuchadnezzar · 11-02-2006, 06:01 PM

I was very in favor of the five year jump. In fact, I was very in favor of the five year jump without any flashbacks or lengthy exposition at all. He should have done what Erikson did in the first malazan book, just start the story and let the readers catch up, or like the one year jump in BSG. Martin should have just stuck to his guns.

ChewieTobbacca · 11-02-2006, 10:12 PM

Well I stlil think a gap is possible, but maybe not a 5 year one. This is because the characters are slowly settling into a stationary position, provided a few things are concluded: Cersei's fate, Brienne's fate, and the stories elaborated in ADWD. For instance, Snow is lord commander of the NW and might have an idle position. Same for Sam (learning at Oldtown), Arya (training), Sansa (training), Bran and Rickon as well. So really, if ADWD concludes the Brienne/Cersei part one way or another as well as whatever pops up, there could potentially be a period of pause (a year or two). After all, with Kings' Landing now no longer in the hands of a mad bitch, it could be stabilized really fast.

Khorum · 11-09-2006, 10:56 AM

It's unrelated, and many ppl here are prolly aware of it, but I didn't know about it till a friend mentioned it to me over the weekend.

Apparently, Bioware's newest game Dragon Age is dark medieval fantasy with a tactical twist, and it's inspired by AGoT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1up

Inspired by "realistic" modern fantasy like George R. R. Martin's A Game of Thrones, Bioware's Dragon Age uses an evolved 3D tactical real-time combat system in a deep role-playing game with large-scale creature combat. Dragon Age uses the same branching conversation system as Bioware's Mass Effect and offers multiple different "origin stories," resulting in a unique game depending on which character archetype you choose.

Very promising, though I wish Bioware would just out and license AGoT straightaway.

Jadaki · 12-01-2006, 07:36 PM

Just because this thread should never leave the front page.

Khorum · 12-01-2006, 08:06 PM

Wouldn't it be fucking awesome if that Bioware MMORPG turned out to be A Song of Ice and Fire?!?!

Insiderr · 12-03-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khorum

Wouldn't it be fucking awesome if that Bioware MMORPG turned out to be A Song of Ice and Fire?!?!

Holy shit. Yes.

11-01-2006, 11:52 PM	#62 (permalink)
ChewieTobbacca Sir Robin Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,481	I realize now what a set up AFfC is for the return of the Targaryens. You have Cersei locked up with the kingdom in shambles. Highgarden isn't going to sit around while it get's assaulted by the ironborn. Doran has created a peace with the Lannisters in the hopes of bringing the Targaryens back unnoticed. King's Landing is going to be so very undefendend - of the Kingsguard, one is dead, one is heading to Dorne, one has only one hand, and another is wounded (though I don't believe Loras is really dying or hurt that bad... I almost expect him to show up as Margaery's champion). It's interesting to note the allegory/parallels this series has had on modern events. A revival of religion in times of despair is an occurence in our world... And I can only laugh as Cersei is outsmarted by the "fools" around her. It's interesting to note that of the 3 children of Tywin, all of taken traits from him but not all of them. You have Jaime who (was) strong of body and physical ability, but was rash in action. Losing his hand has really given him time to reflect and grow in wisdom and intelligence but has also tarnished his reputation (as though being Kingslayer wasn't enough). Anything he now does for honor is not trusted by people. Cersei on the other hand has the crafty ideas to rule a kingdom, but doesn't understand how to please the people nor keep friends despite all her "tools." And Tyrion is the one with the skills to play the game, but his lack of physical prowess has hurt him. I do wonder if Davos is really dead... seems unlikely to be killed so randomly. Oh and it may fun to see why Darkstar wanted Myrcella dead (maybe he's just pissed that his cousin Arthur Dayne was killed by the Lannisters, and a old blood feud needed settling, as well as an ego in the shadow of a great relative)... Last edited by ChewieTobbacca : 11-01-2006 at 11:55 PM.

11-02-2006, 06:01 PM	#70 (permalink)
Nebuchadnezzar Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,462 +0 Internets	I was very in favor of the five year jump. In fact, I was very in favor of the five year jump without any flashbacks or lengthy exposition at all. He should have done what Erikson did in the first malazan book, just start the story and let the readers catch up, or like the one year jump in BSG. Martin should have just stuck to his guns. __________________ I eat grass like an ox and shat like a fox.

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11-01-2006, 07:36 PM	#61 (permalink)
manslayer El Presidente Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Deep Dark Cold Posts: 259 -1 Internets	Yeah needs to dictate while on a treadmill!

11-02-2006, 09:25 AM	#67 (permalink)
Khorum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,978 -13 Internets	I can see the Davos POV problem, seeing as how the chapters were just moved to a new book to keep AFFC from being a 2000-page giant. The POV-inflation will keep growing though, now that he's split one book into two (actually one and a half, considering how anemic AFFC actually was) it opens the way to breaking up the rest of the series into more books, as opposed to restraining the POVs into something manageable. Although as the series winds up, there'll obviously be less and less POVs. I love the pace of the series, but I sorta wish that there WAS a 5-year jump between the first trilogy and the next books. He couldve worked flashbacks in the narrative and managed the expositions better than with the detailed historical-fiction approach. Now there's a good chance the next 3 books will end up being 4 or 5 books with parallel POVs split up to control publishing costs. Thing is, GRRM is a pretty prolific writer and he pumps out more work than his average contemporaries, hes got another series hes been writing, the dunk and egg short stories, and even a collaborative work... in his blog he mentions working on a dozen other projects in parallel (in addition to various conventions, awards ceremonies, and moping around his new house) >_<

11-02-2006, 09:39 AM	#68 (permalink)
Faltigoth Army Football forever!! Who needs wins, anyway?!? Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 781 +0 Internets	Yukiri, I saw it mentioned somewhere (maybe westeros.org) that Martin planned to take ADWD a little bit past AFfC to wrap up some of what happened at the end of Crows.

11-02-2006, 10:10 AM	#69 (permalink)
ChewieTobbacca Sir Robin Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,481	I figure that in ADWD or the book after, they will have killed many characters/removed them from importance. I can certainly see Davos, Theon, and Asha removed since they don't seem to be of much importance to the story arc anymore. Stannis and Melisandre may be removed one way or another as well.

11-02-2006, 10:12 PM	#71 (permalink)
ChewieTobbacca Sir Robin Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,481	Well I stlil think a gap is possible, but maybe not a 5 year one. This is because the characters are slowly settling into a stationary position, provided a few things are concluded: Cersei's fate, Brienne's fate, and the stories elaborated in ADWD. For instance, Snow is lord commander of the NW and might have an idle position. Same for Sam (learning at Oldtown), Arya (training), Sansa (training), Bran and Rickon as well. So really, if ADWD concludes the Brienne/Cersei part one way or another as well as whatever pops up, there could potentially be a period of pause (a year or two). After all, with Kings' Landing now no longer in the hands of a mad bitch, it could be stabilized really fast.

12-01-2006, 07:36 PM	#73 (permalink)
Jadaki This space for rent! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,204 -3 Internets	Just because this thread should never leave the front page.

12-01-2006, 08:06 PM	#74 (permalink)
Khorum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,978 -13 Internets	Wouldn't it be fucking awesome if that Bioware MMORPG turned out to be A Song of Ice and Fire?!?!