Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time

[Tabris]

The next book is supposed to be the last.

I fucking HATE reading anything that has to do with the women in the story. They're all fucking retards. I know it's supposed to be a matriarchal society blahblahblah but seriously they act like such stupid bitches it's ridiculous.

[Angry Amadeus]

Originally Posted by Tabris

The next book is supposed to be the last.

I fucking HATE reading anything that has to do with the women in the story. They're all fucking retards. I know it's supposed to be a matriarchal society blahblahblah but seriously they act like such stupid bitches it's ridiculous.

This was always the biggest turn-off for me, when reading the WoT series. If the point about Aes'Sedai wasn't driven home enough, we now have a seperate 'tower' with a completely seperate 'amyrlin', which requires 300+ more pages of trite and boring diatribe with some tea-sipping high-brow bullshit thrown in.

Yick.

Give me Perrin crackin' skulls and Mat rolling die. Please. Oh, and more of Rand teleporting and getting it on with visionary chicks.

[Teger]

Originally Posted by Angry Amadeus

This was always the biggest turn-off for me, when reading the WoT series. If the point about Aes'Sedai wasn't driven home enough, we now have a seperate 'tower' with a completely seperate 'amyrlin', which requires 300+ more pages of trite and boring diatribe with some tea-sipping high-brow bullshit thrown in.

Yick.

Give me Perrin crackin' skulls and Mat rolling die. Please. Oh, and more of Rand teleporting and getting it on with visionary chicks.

Oh no Nyvnae is tugging on her braid again!!!!!! Let's discuss it!!!!!! YAY!!!!

Ugh someone should make a fucking fan rewrite of this series and remove every female perspective, so it's just the Ran/Perrin/Mat kicking the shit out of people.

[stehle]

Originally Posted by Chinaman889

Knife of Dreams finally had our old RJ back. My favorite scene had to be with Nynaeve and what she does for Lan. I have to admit that the best parts were with Mat especially near the end.

Quoted this because it was one of my favorite parts of the story. It gives me hope that in the next book we will start to see some truly legendary battles.

As for characters, I abhore Perrin. I liked him to begin with, but I'll be damned if the whole Faile thing didn't do anything for me at all. Matt, however, from a fun character to a really great character that I enjoy reading about. It will be interesting in the next book as he headings into the aelfinn "zone" to get Moraine back.

[Tabris]

BTW, the fact that he might actually croak before completing the goddamn thing pisses me off to no end. From a WoT message board:

Well I hope as well that RJ makes it but the statistics being given is a little skewed. I don't know what exactly has been told to RJ and Harriet by the Mayo people but there are a few things that need to be said.

First of all, I am a doctor although not a Heme/Onc speicalist. I'm a head/neck surgeon so amyloidosis is a bit out of my purvey. I know as much about this disease as probably the next guy on the Internet whose done a good Wikipedia web search.

Having said this, I am good friends with a few Heme/Onc specialists and they know A LOT about this disease. One such doctor has performed bone marrow transplants on amyloidosis patients at her hospital and has also sent referrals to Mayo as well.

So . . . from a medical perspective the prospect of RJ surviving 10 years is very poor. The 4 year median survival is extremely optimistic . . . this refers to people who have had a FULL response to bone marrow therapy. This is not the case with Jordan. There have been few published series on amyloidosis because it is so rare. The major ones come from Mayo and Boston University.

Overall, this disease is VERY bad to have. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Amyloidosis is worse than many cancers. The MEDIAN survival does not mean the average. It is the number in the MIDDLE of a range of numbers. Hence 1, 2, 3, 4, 50, 88, 156. The median number would be 4 . . . obviously nowhere close to the true mean.

All this is to say that RJ's prognosis having failed the bone marrow transplant is not good. Patients are stratified into risk groups based on the type of amyloidosis they have, the organ system most involved, the aggressiveness of the disease, and response to therapy. The fact that RJ was a candidate for bone marrow transplant in the first place and that he SURVIVED it are all positive points in his favor. The fact that he did not respond and the fact that the light chains are still increasing are NOT good points. Further, the fact that the amyloid deposits in his heart is also NOT good. Overall, RJ stated that without response to treatment the median survival is ONE year. And that is the MEDIAN.

The fact that he appears to need Lasix (a potent diuretic) is NOT a good sign. This means that for whatever reason (whether because of the amyloid deposits or the experimental protocol he is undergoing) he is in some component of Congestive Heart Failure. You don't gain 20 pounds of water unless this is a big problem.

People with CHF can last quite a few years but their quality of life is not very good. They can't sleep unless propped up by multiple pillows, they get tired very easily, they get lung manifestations of the disease, etc, etc. And this is CHF NOT caused by amyloidosis. THAT type of heart failure usually progresses much faster and the patient dies from either a heart attack or simple endstage heart failure and pulmonary edema.

Amyloid that deposits in the heart is one of the WORST kinds and RJ has that.

It is encouraging to note that his EF is still ok and that damage to his myocardial wall appears to have stabilized but this can change at any time.

Even with advanced in medicine, the mortality of amyloidosis is still very high. There are only a few people in the world that have "beaten" the disease and this is mostly because they have a VERY indolent and slow form of amyloidosis and they have had a successful bone marrow transplant.

RJ fits none of that criteria. So to think he will be with us "at least" 10 years is very optimistic and may set yourself up for disappointment.

This is LITERALLY a "one in a million" disease so there aren't many people in the U.S. with it. My friend has treated about a dozen or so in the past few years and the LONGEST survival was 4 or 5 years. Most died within one to two years from heart and kidney failure. Another Heme/Onc specialist at Kaiser whose been in practice for many decades have treated a few dozen and had 2 or 3 long-term survivors but once again with very indolent types that responded to the bone marrow transplant.

In any case, if RJ is too weak to even be allowed by his doctors to type in his blog . . . this is worrisome to me. It shows that his CHF is worse than perhaps publicized.

Also, no offense to any Medicine or Heme/Onc docs out there but the personalities that go into that field are naturally extremely optimistic and aggressive. This is the "never say die" attitude. Even my friend freely admits this. They are usually VERY uncomfortable telling patients the true state of affairs. I've seen Heme/Onc docs still talking about treatment with end-stage pancreatic cancer patients, lung cancer patients with brain mets, etc. I mean sure there's always miracles but speaking as a doctor ... when your patient statistically has less than a one percent chance to live out the year I think it is a moral and ethical duty to tell them the facts and let them know the odds. Obviously amyloidosis is not as bad as THAT but certainly being put on "experimental protocols" is never a positive sign.

Once again I hate to be a downer on this but knowing what I know and reading the papers written by the Mayo and Boston people on Pubmed has caused me to be quite concerned. I HOPE RJ beats the odds. I've read him from 1990, the very beginning and greatly enjoy his work. I've met him at signings 4 or 5 times and think he's a great guy.

But I think that the presentation of his disease has been a bit optimistic and I just feel that we need that injection of realism here. For RJ to be alive 5 years from now (not to mention 10) would be one of the great miracles in medicine. I hope he can do it.

Dennis

[Zarniwoop]

Originally Posted by Teger

Oh no Nyvnae is tugging on her braid again!!!!!! Let's discuss it!!!!!! YAY!!!!

Ugh someone should make a fucking fan rewrite of this series and remove every female perspective, so it's just the Ran/Perrin/Mat kicking the shit out of people.

I stopped reading these books (around #5) when I found I was skipping every second chapter (braid-tugging bitchy women who can't say what they think) and only reading the Ran/Perrin/Mat ass-kicking chapters.

[Lucificate]

I really have enjoyed the Wheel of Time. I agree with the criticism of most of the female characters, they can be pretty pitiful, but my anger towards them has lessened over the years. Contrary to popular opinion, I also have enjoyed all of the books except for 10. I reread them last year at some point, and remembered on my first read throughs disliking 8 and 9, but on the reread, I enjoyed them. I gain some odd enjoyment from boring detail, it is relaxing or something, and I find it immersive (I understand for many the opposite is true). Although I hope RH lives to complete the series, it will be a sad day for me when the story is completed - I kind of like to think of it as a world that just goes on and on and won't "end".

[Kuro]

Even if he dies, his son will "find his notes" and churn out some completely horrible books that will make you wish the series had never ended.

[Lucificate]

Ya, I actually do worry about that happening.

[jazser]

Yeah, I am bitter about this series too. I loved books one through 5, and then proceeded to work my way through 6 and 7. I think I must have still been interested in the series as I went out to meet Jordan at a book signing near my work on a lunch break when the Crossroads of twilight came out. But the series very quickly went down hill after that point. After reading Winter's heart I put the series down. About 2 years later I picked it back up (and this is what I am really bitter about) and decided to re-read the entire series to see what I was missing. I figured if the first 5 books were that good, then I must not be following the intricacies of the plot lines, or that I must be missing something.

It was half way through the second reading of Winter's Heart that I realized I was right the first time: the series is crap. And I am dumb.

The only thing worse than wasting your time with 6,000 pages of bullshit is...doing it twice.

[Mattwp]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but can someone recommend another book series thats close to the "good parts" of WoT? I think we can all agree 1-4 and 11 are the best, and I really enjoyed those books. I guess I'm looking for a series that's like that the whole read through. Thanks!

[Teger]

I found "The Monarchies of God" by Paul Kearney to amazing, but a much shorter series.

[Tabris]

Guy Gavriel Kay's The Fionavar Tapestry is good.

Stephen Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever are good, although I've heard the most recent trilogy of books is Donaldson hacking it.

Stephen Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is amazing, but very dense and hard to get into.

[Kuro]

Thomas Covenant, the main character you love to loath.

I liked the books, and understood what he was doing with a main character that was so, just, unlike-able, but a lot of people don't, and thus it doesn't have a very high regard in most groups I talk to.

[Tred]

I'll second the Malazan series. Seriously bad ass series but it does just throw you into the middle of everything and is a bit overwhelming at first. Just get through the first half of book 1 and it gets easier to read from there.