Govt suspends Cash For Clunkers

[Cybsled]

Some dealers are also matching the 4500 Gov credit, so you could in theory get 9k off a new car for your old shitbox. That's a good deal any way you cut it.

[Pren]

My parents have been out of town almost two weeks to visit family, I got one of those C4C notes in the mail for his truck. I actually left him a voicemail tonight pointing that out and suggesting now'd be a great time to replace it since the a/c is shot and some other shit.

God damnit.

[Lleauaric~EW]

U.S. 'Cash for Clunkers' Stalls - WSJ.com

C'mon people... read BEFORE you post

DOT officials believe all the money may have been spent, but want to suspend the program at least temporarily to allow all transactions to be processed.

Lawmakers had opposed a larger authorization of funds, initially preferring to wait and see how successful the program would be.

This was the trial run... it worked... it'll be back.

[Lyrical]

The program could have unintended effects, some what like the gov't did with pushing housing for so long. Some customers are using the $4500 as a down payment, and this could be helping them get loans that they wouldn't have qualified for otherwise. It would be a disaster if these people couldn't afford to make payments and get repossessed en masse. The only thing that could stop this is that lenders are so paranoid about lending, that it is harder to qualify.

[Lleauaric~EW]

Ok. Let me explain to you why you are wrong.

A new car is a much better purchase than a used one. You get better longer rates, lower maintenance costs, better on gas, ect. Being as people buy 4 or 5 cars on average in a lifetime, these are purchases that are going to happen regardless. The 4,500 can be used to bump a person who was going to spend (for example) 8,000 on a used car to spend 18,000 on a new one. Spread that out over 5 years instead of the shorter term/higher rate/bulk expense of a used car and for the consumer, its a good situation.

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by Heavens_Myst

It's like forcing farmers to destroy crops to preserve a certain market price, completely fucking retarded.

No, it's not at all the same.

The broken window fallacy (destroying something and replacing it causes economic activity, but no welfare gains) requires that what is destroyed is replaced with the same.

Clearly, there is a HUGE environmental gain coming from this program. Do the conversion from MPG to Gallons per Mile (GPM), which is far more telling: GPM - The MPG Illusion

Much easier to calculate lifetime cost with that. For 100k miles:

18 MPG = 5556 gallons
22 MPG = 4545 gallons
28 MPG = 3571 gallons
40 MPG = 2500 gallons
66 MPG = 1515 gallons
200 MPG = 500 gallons

So the environmental benefit from upgrading from 18 MPG to 22 MPG is the same as upgrading from 40 MPG to 66 MPG. Of course improvements at the low end are much cheaper, so if you want to provide an incentive for purchases, that's where they need to happen. They probably should have set the minimum higher in the 20s, but at least some of the most egregious cars will be off the road and people will likely voluntarily buy more efficient cars.

Just remember, though, that 18 MPG is the maximum that you can trade in - there are people with even less efficient cars. 15 MPG uses 6667 gallons for 100k miles - so upgrading 15 MPG to 18 MPG brings more in savings than going from 66 MPG to 200 MPG.

[Heylel Teomim]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

Actually, I don't really understand why the Obama administration doesn't just shut down all of these programs, since the recession is over. Its pretty obvious they are no longer needed.

It's over? Really?

[Haus]

Originally Posted by Heylel Teomim

It's over? Really?

If you listen to a lot of the spin coming from various people in Washington apparently we've seen the worse and it's going to recover from here.... Does that mean it's over?

I have always been one of those "Buy a good used car and drive it until the wheels fall off, then repeat" type people. My wife wanted me to get a newer car, but my old 95 Olds still drives fine and has working AC (a necessity in Texas IMHO). This program had me actually ready to go in and get a new car. Especially since one dealership, which had the vehicle I wanted, was doubling up whatever the program would give you. Yes, $9k can sway my opinion on buying a new car.

Then I found out that thanks to the EPA apparently recently bumping the supposed mileage on my 95 olds it no longer counts as a "clunker". My wife now hates them....

[Phelps McManus]

I believe a positive GDP growth will technically snap the recession. Someone may need to explain this to the record number of unemployed.

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

I believe a positive GDP growth will technically snap the recession. Someone may need to explain this to the record number of unemployed.

Jobless recovery - sucks, but may be what's happening.

As for the recession:

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Friday, July 31, 2009 -- 8:40 AM ET
-----

U.S. Economy Shrank Less Than Expected in Quarter

The latest government report shows the economy contracted at
a 1 percent annual pace in the second quarter, a
better-than-expected showing and the strongest signal to date
that the recession, the longest since World War II, is
finally winding down.

The Commerce Department said the slippage in gross domestic
product for the April to June period came after the economy
was in a free fall, tumbling at a 6.4 percent pace in the
first three months of the year, worse than the earlier
estimate of 5.5 percent. That made the first quarter the
worst for the economy in nearly three decades.

Not over, but getting worse at a slower pace.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

This program was working, though. When I went shopping, all of the dealers said they were busy (and looked it). It was actually a bit of work to schedule a time to sign on my car. Between the dealers, manufacturers, advertisers, and financiers, this has to be the best "bang for buck" of any program that came through the official stimulus and bailout packages.

I hope they add more funding to keep it going.

Success depends on your criteria. If you want the US to recover and the US auto industry to be successful then this program is/was a huge success. If you want Obama to fail and in turn the US auto industry to fail this program was a huge failure in your goals.

[Heylel Teomim]

Wish I would have looked into this. My 05 XTerra gets an average 17mpg and my commute is now in the range of 25 miles one way. 9K + scrap value off a new vehicle would have been nice.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

I believe a positive GDP growth will technically snap the recession. Someone may need to explain this to the record number of unemployed.

I believe someone needs a history lesson.

Even in the times of your almighty savior, Reagan, just like EVERY other fucking modern day recession - the economy leads out while the unemployment rate lags behind.

Since as Soriak pointed out, we're not there yet, no one is saying the recession is fucking over. They are saying that the worst is which again backed by every economist/historian in the known universe, is fucking true.

And when the recession IS over, the unemployment rate will likely lag behind in progress. Just like every other fucking time.

/facepalm

[Arative]

Originally Posted by Haus

If you listen to a lot of the spin coming from various people in Washington apparently we've seen the worse and it's going to recover from here.... Does that mean it's over?

I have always been one of those "Buy a good used car and drive it until the wheels fall off, then repeat" type people. My wife wanted me to get a newer car, but my old 95 Olds still drives fine and has working AC (a necessity in Texas IMHO). This program had me actually ready to go in and get a new car. Especially since one dealership, which had the vehicle I wanted, was doubling up whatever the program would give you. Yes, $9k can sway my opinion on buying a new car.

Then I found out that thanks to the EPA apparently recently bumping the supposed mileage on my 95 olds it no longer counts as a "clunker". My wife now hates them....

According to this article you can call the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration if you think you've been hurt by the EPA's refreshed MPG standards.

I would think the EPA would have been smart enough to realize that, Congress wanted this problem to work, so maybe they shouldn't have messed with the MPG rating on older cars.

[Phelps McManus]

Originally Posted by Etoille

I believe someone needs a history lesson.

Even in the times of your almighty savior, Reagan, just like EVERY other fucking modern day recession - the economy leads out while the unemployment rate lags behind.

Since as Soriak pointed out, we're not there yet, no one is saying the recession is fucking over. They are saying that the worst is which again backed by every economist/historian in the known universe, is fucking true.

And when the recession IS over, the unemployment rate will likely lag behind in progress. Just like every other fucking time.

/facepalm

Thanks for the history lesson. I must have skipped that day in... Western Civ?... where we talked about unemployment trends.

And you keep arguing with those Strawmen, I don't mind.