Was Heny Gates Treated Poorly?

[Frax]

Henry Gates is turning into an example of why racism is even an issue in American society beyond the redneck bubbas in the south and the occasional nutjob. He clearly wants to perpetuate ill will and divisiveness for the eventual book deal and/or lawsuit.

PS: fuck him, seriously.

[earthfell]

Originally Posted by Dis

I am sure that is exactly what the black cop was thinking walking him to the police cruiser.

That's why they hire token blacks, so people can point to them and say "see, they have a black cop they aren't racist!"

Some of the most vocal opponents of feminism are women. It's not about individual people, it is about ideology. Being a female doesn't make you immune to spouting and believing in the tenets of patriarchy, and being black doesn't prevent you from participating in racist ideology. The black cop certainly works for a system which has been proven on multiple times to be racist.

Anyway, I am really sick of cops. I have never met one who treated me with any kind of respect, or like I was a citizen in a democracy. After I was robbed at gunpoint in Houston, the cop treated ME like I was the criminal, probably because I inconvenienced him by being mugged in front of the courthouse, where crime was, according to the hundreds of banners, at 0%. The situation is getting particularly bad in California, where the police have been flat out lying about traffic violations in order to get more money for the state. I was talking to a guy who was going court over a ticket, he said the cop pulled him over and the first thing he said was "How did you get this car?" The guy was Pakistani and it was a Ferrari.

I simply do not believe anything the police say anymore, same for our government. They wear their authority on their sleeves and are just aching for any excuse to use it. Gates fulfilled his responsiblity by showing them ID. The cops failed in theirs by not being able to restrain themselves, a typical American trait.

[Snugglebear]

Us white folks have trouble understanding, but sometimes minorities have to deal with this shit all the time. The New York Times had a funny article about it, from the perspective of two black men - one had been doing repairs around his apartment in California and a neighbor called the cops about his suspicious behavior. Another black guy called the cops about a burglary and they patted HIM down, while he was saying "I called you!" It's so easy to tell blacks to just suck it up and be extra nice every time the cop pulls you over for driving a BMW, but fuck it, it can wear a man down.

[Lonin]

Usually these police abuse stories really piss me off, but I can't seem to conjure up any outrage over this. Both sides were assholes, plain and simple.

What's really hilarious is this quote from Gates, "This [cop] had this whole narrative in his head. Black guy breaking and entering." That's painfully ironic considering it's pretty obvious that Gates also had the "COPS ARE RACIST PIGS" narrative in his head. It's all the more ridiculous that race was brought up in this at all; I'm willing to bet the only person at the scene thinking about race in the slightest was Gates himself. Not to mention that the cops' presence and request of ID is totally reasonable. Does anyone really believe the cop thought, "hey, look at this elderly black man in a polo and slacks, I bet he's one of them crazy nigger criminals!" In the end, it was Gates' own prejudices that lead to the arrest, not the other way around.

All that being said, the cop was blatantly out of line in arresting him, that's a classic dick-move and an abuse of power that cops often use to fuck with people that are making their job harder. The cop should definitely be punished (and there should be federal laws/protections put in place to prevent these types of "minor" abuses of power by police), but at this point punishing the cop just validates the racism claim that much more, which is worse than the cops' actions in the first place.

tl;dr cop is a douche, Gates is a bigger douche.

[Chips]

The reason Black people are continuously harassed by the police is because odds are when you see a black person acting suspicious they are probably up to no good.

Every time you turn on the news or read the newspaper(people still do that?) and you see a bunch of stories of black people robbing, stealing, murdering and other criminal activity people will start acting suspicious of that kind of people.

Kind of like after 9-11 people starting being suspicious of Arabs on planes and around important places. People are keeping an eye on these people because they have a past history of blowing shit up.

[Mimirswell]

These are the jury instructions given to Mass. jurors regarding Disorderly Conduct, the charge given when Gates was arrested.

The defendant is charged with disorderly conduct. In order to prove the defendant guilty of this offense, the Commonwealth must prove three things beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. The Commonwealth must prove that the defendant involved himself (herself) in at least one of the following actions: he (she) either engaged in fighting or threatening, or engaged in violent or tumultuous behavior or created a hazardous or physically offensive condition by an act that served no legitimate purpose of the defendant’s;
2. The Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant’s actions were reasonably likely to affect the public; and
3. The Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant either intended to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly created a risk of public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm.

Relevant Cases
1. 57 Mass. App. Ct. 579 (March 14, 2003)
Police presence in and of itself does not by itself turn an otherwise purely private outburst into disorderly conduct.

In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.

2. Commonwealth v. Richards, 369 Mass. 443, 445-450
Offensive language. General Laws c. 272, § 53 cannot constitutionally be applied to language and expressive conduct, even if it is offensive and abusive, unless it falls outside the scope of First Amendment protections, i.e. it constitutes “fighting words which by their very utterance tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.”

Source: http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsand...ly-conduct.pdf

So given both relevant cases and the requirement for it to affect the public, nothing in the police report, much less Gate's version of events could possibly qualify as Disorderly Conduct. Simply put, the police did act stupidly though Obama was equally stupid for saying so as it disrupts his Healthcare agenda.

I'm not defending Gates here either because his "is this because I'm a black man in America?" cooment is incredibly oversensitive for a guy that is doing extremely well in America by all metrics but under no circumstances should he ever been cuffed and taken to the station and anyone who thinks so is extremely deluded.

[Lonin]

Originally Posted by Chips

The reason Black people are continuously harassed by the police is because odds are when you see a black person acting suspicious they are probably up to no good.

Every time you turn on the news or read the newspaper(people still do that?) and you see a bunch of stories of black people robbing, stealing, murdering and other criminal activity people will start acting suspicious of that kind of people.

Kind of like after 9-11 people starting being suspicious of Arabs on planes and around important places. People are keeping an eye on these people because they have a past history of blowing shit up.

Hah, I saw Chips as the last poster and though to myself, "I wonder what racist bullshit he posted this time?" Thanks for reaffirming my belief in you.

[Chips]

Originally Posted by Lonin

Hah, I saw Chips as the last poster and though to myself, "I wonder what racist bullshit he posted this time?" Thanks for reaffirming my belief in you.

Let me get this straight, when you're sitting at the airport and you see 19 Arabs males all sitting together boarding a plane to New York you're not worried?

When your driving down the street and you see 5 black dudes kicking in a door home you think they probably just left the keys inside?

Why is it that the majority of people in prison are Black? They represent about 10% of the population yet make up the majority of inmates.

Must be impartial justice system right?

[Lonin]

Originally Posted by Chips

Let me get this straight, when you're sitting at the airport and you see 19 Arabs males all sitting together boarding a plane to New York you're not worried?

When your driving down the street and you see 5 black dudes kicking in a door home you think they probably just left the keys inside?

Why is it that the majority of people in prison are Black? They represent about 10% of the population yet make up the majority of inmates.

Must be impartial justice system right?

- Not one bit. I'd most likely joke to whoever I was with about it though, because it's fucking ridiculous to be worried about it. I'm pretty sure that them turrists aren't stupid enough to try and pull off another attack on what is now one of the most heavily secured locations in the US, a plane. And if they did, they wouldn't get 19 obviously Arab dudes to sit together in the airport lobby.

- Of course I'd think they were breaking in, just like if I saw 5 white dudes kicking in a house door. Fuck, 5 elderly Hawaiian women kicking in a door would get me to call the cops.

- There's a world of difference between the majority of the prison population being black and the majority of blacks being in prison. I won't argue that blacks make up a much higher percentage of the prison population than they should, and that statistically, blacks have a higher rate of crime, that's a fact. However, the chance that any random black person would commit a crime is still not even close to a likely situation.

[Mimirswell]

Originally Posted by Lonin

- There's a world of difference between the majority of the prison population being black and the majority of blacks being in prison.

Not to mention the Black population having a much higher poverty rate than Whites and institutionalized racism in some laws (see: disparity between crack / cocaine laws since 1987 - 5-year minimum sentence for trafficking 500g of powdered cocaine, the same sentence can be imposed for mere possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine, a 100:1 ratio.)

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

Because you DON'T FUCKING HAVE TO SHOW YOUR FUCKING ID?

Depending on your state you have to show ID even it is because you just happen to be walking down the street on a sunny day. Back in '05 or so the Supreme Court ruled that it constituted a minimal invasion of privacy and was thus permitted.

So yeah, depending on how your state handles it, you do.

[Luthair]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

Also, this guy was NOT arrested because he didn't show ID or whatnot. In fact, the issue was resolved and the cop was on the way out. It was the fact that the guy goes out of the home and starts haggling the cop. He was looking for a confrontation in this case, and he got it.

Read the report, the cop asked him to step outside, the impression I got was that he was luring him outside intentionallly. That photo almost makes me wonder if he actually just arrested him inside.

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

Because you DON'T FUCKING HAVE TO SHOW YOUR FUCKING ID?

You can CHOOSE to. Great. You are an upstanding citizen and the type of guy who waters his lawn and smiles at his neighbors. Great for you.. Hurrah.

Have you actually read your link? IANAL but I would say that the section on Detention applied.

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

Right up until the point when he shows him an ID that proves that the house is actually his. See, but AFTER that point the dude was arrested and cuffed. I have zero problem with anything the cop did right until the point he summons up a bullshit charge, places handcuffs on a man for no good legal reason and removes him from his home and into a jail cell. The rest was his job, the final part was personal.

Does the Harvard ID card show an address? I can't say I've ever seen a college card with an address on it.

[MrGraham]

Jesus Christ why is there still discussion about the ID. The officer knew the guy lived there before arresting him (says so in the report) so whether or not he had the ID was irrelevant.

Was the professor a dumbass blowhard? Absolutely yes.
Should he have been arrested for disorderly conduct? Probably not.

[Picasso]

"It's your house, you dont have to show your I.D."

Is so ridiculous, you may be right. But WHY?

The officer is INVESTIGATING A BREAK IN

WHY DONT YOU JUST SHOW YOUR ID?

Because he has no right?

What would you say if someone came in and stole all your shit, then you asks the cops what happened and they say "Oh we showed up, he said he lived there"

Then we would have a thread about how incompetent the police are.

You have to draw the line somewhere, hopefully somewhere near rationality.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Chips

The reason Black people are continuously harassed by the police is because odds are when you see a black person acting suspicious they are probably up to no good.

Every time you turn on the news or read the newspaper(people still do that?) and you see a bunch of stories of black people robbing, stealing, murdering and other criminal activity people will start acting suspicious of that kind of people.

Kind of like after 9-11 people starting being suspicious of Arabs on planes and around important places. People are keeping an eye on these people because they have a past history of blowing shit up.

Now this is a racist. The Officer in the Gates case in not a racist. Chips is the standard, text book definition of a racist. Fortunately, most people in this country are not like Chips and would be better off when people like Chips no longer exist.

It is because of people like Chips that makes people like Gates blow shit like this out of proportion. Chips represents the worse element of the US and I am amazed that people like him continue to exist in the US.