Atheists choose 'de-baptism' to renounce childhood faith

[Hathe]

Originally Posted by Manseed

Atheism is becoming a religion.

Yup. See you guys at the atheist mass this Sunday! Go Darwin!

[Manseed]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

So what exactly do I believe in that I can't prove Manseed?

First of all, it's what we believe because I'm an atheist as well.

Save for radicals, most religious people remove God so far from reality that it can't be argued whether or not he exists. God always exists outside of current science because he has to. That means it can't really be argued either way.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Manseed

Save for radicals, most religious people remove God so far from reality that it can't be argued whether or not he exists. God always exists outside of current science because he has to. That means it can't really be argued either way.

Yeah I read this like 4 times and I can't seem to locate the part where you answer my question.

What do we, believe in that cannot be proved? Also, just because you say something cannot be argued, does not magically make that so. If there is a super intelligence out there that has created everything then it falls right in sciences lap to explain how, where, when and if we can, why.

[Soriak]

From the article:

It helped me admit that it was OK to think the way I think and to not have any religious beliefs

What's the problem? In many circles, it seems saying you're an atheist will make you an outcast. I don't see what's wrong with people getting together for support. Atheists still are a rather small minority in the US - and a minority in most of Europe, too.

With shit like this passing, is it any wonder atheists are concerned?

Ireland bucks trend with anti-blasphemy law • The Register

Take the Lord’s name in vain and if the lightning bolt doesn’t get you, the Irish Government soon will....

The clause states: "A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €100,000."

It then defines "Blasphemous matter" as "grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage".

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Soriak

What's the problem? In many circles, it seems saying you're an atheist will make you an outcast. I don't see what's wrong with people getting together for support. Atheists still are a rather small minority in the US - and a minority in most of Europe, too.

What blows my mind is that Atheists/Agnostics/Whogivesashitters outnumber Jews by quite a bit, and yet look at the kind of influence AIPAC has on our policy.

It almost makes me buy into Lumies Jewzards Alien/Angel Mayan 2012 shtick.

[Araxen]

Yeah, that Ireland shit is like going back in time to the 1100's or so. That shit has no place in modern society.

[Manseed]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

Yeah I read this like 4 times and I can't seem to locate the part where you answer my question.

What do we, believe in that cannot be proved? Also, just because you say something cannot be argued, does not magically make that so. If there is a super intelligence out there that has created everything then it falls right in sciences lap to explain how, where, when and if we can, why.

It can't be proved that there isn't a creator because of the way it's argued. Whenever I argue with somebody religious it ends up in the same ballpark, basically that there is a God that exists outside of the bounds of science. There's nothing you can say to that.

This is just my experience with the discussion.

[Soriak]

Also, can we stop arguing that atheism requires faith? Atheism isn't knowing that there is no god, it's not believing in a god.

Sure, you can be agnostic about it - and about Xenu, Thor, Mars and all the others. I don't see what the difference between that sort of agnosticism and atheism is in practice. If the probability of something being true is extremely low and there is no evidence that it is true, the reasonable response is to not believe it.

[Manseed]

Originally Posted by Soriak

Also, can we stop arguing that atheism requires faith? Atheism isn't knowing that there is no god, it's not believing in a god.

Sure, you can be agnostic about it - and about Xenu, Thor, Mars and all the others. I don't see what the difference between that sort of agnosticism and atheism is in practice. If the probability of something being true is extremely low and there is no evidence that it is true, the reasonable response is to not believe it.

I didn't mean to side track into semantics.

I agree with what you're saying, I probably didn't phrase my comment very well about atheism requiring faith. I know a lot of militant atheists who treat it like a blind faith, who remind me of militant Christians

Where is Dumar?

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Manseed

It can't be proved that there isn't a creator because of the way it's argued. Whenever I argue with somebody religious it ends up in the same ballpark, basically that there is a God that exists outside of the bounds of science. There's nothing you can say to that.

This is just my experience with the discussion.

There is plenty you can say to that. First off, if God exists outside of the bounds of science, then who made the laws that we use to observe the material world? It can't be God because he does not live in that house. he is outside of those bonds. Was it another super intelligence? Perhaps God is only so powerful and has no control over that making him not omnipotent.

You also need to start bringing up probability more in your discussions. I can conclude with a 99.999% certainly an infinite amount of things. These things cannot 100% conclusively be "proved", but I can have enough information to be so sure as to make a judgment one way or the other. God falls into that 0.001% Sure it is possible, just like teapots around Saturn are possible.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

Yeah I read this like 4 times and I can't seem to locate the part where you answer my question.

What do we, believe in that cannot be proved? Also, just because you say something cannot be argued, does not magically make that so. If there is a super intelligence out there that has created everything then it falls right in sciences lap to explain how, where, when and if we can, why.

Here let me make this simple.

A: You believe there is no god.
Q: No. I do not know of a god.
A: Therefore you do not believe in a god.
Q: No. That is unreasonable! Not knowing of something does not mean I don't believe in it and therefore make it an belief. Or else one could say I have a belief no man on the moon, or no alien lizard men, or no choclate salty balls!

/end

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

But it's academically dishonest and an outright lie to say you don't know of the God they are talking about. You haven't ended anything. You're (badly) arguing semantic definitions.

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by Manseed

Whenever I argue with somebody religious it ends up in the same ballpark, basically that there is a God that exists outside of the bounds of science.

You can't reason people out of an indoctrinated view. That's the poisonous part about religion: it deems it acceptable to believe something simply because someone (e.g. the bible, or the pope) said so. Much like any other cult, there's no way the followers will accept reason, even if you can point out contradictions within their believes.

Funny how, for example, religious people love to use the beginning of the universe as an argument against a world without a god. Where did the universe come from, if it was not created by god? Of course you can extend that one step further: where did god come from? There, the religious see it as normal that god has always existed... what a cop out. (Or maybe that time has no meaning for god... which is great, because time also has no meaning before the big bang. It's like north has no meaning at the north pole - every direction is in the south.)

Nonetheless, you can never reason someone out of religion. They'll either get the absurdity of their believes (especially if they are from the conservative/traditional denominations), or they wont. On the upside, the craziest dedicate their lives to their religion and those of us outside of their bubble don't actually have to deal with them. You know, the people who freak out when the bill totals $6.66.

[Sharmai]

question: Is religion like race in that your automatically an atheist of a particular religion even if you never know about it? Like being born African American but never knowing of other races?

[cosmic_cs]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

question: Is religion like race in that your automatically an atheist of a particular religion even if you never know about it? Like being born African American but never knowing of other races?

Blown = mind