Apple to Microsoft: "Stop airing those commercials"

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Horse

And those solid color with white headphones and ipod ads were EVERYWHERE in nyc + chicago. You couldn't go more than 5 minutes without seeing one. Again, what was their competition? My little rang rang asian flimsy shit that cost like $50 was essentially a shuffle before the shuffle existed, held maybe 1 or 2 albums at a go. shrug.

Heh I remember the 32MB MP3 players from long ago. Literally years before the first iPod. They cost as much as a 16GB device now. And yeah, they came with software that you used to copy songs from the computer to the device. Innovashun!

[Sheaf]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHA! No wonder you fighting so hard you actually bought a Macbook Air, I too would be right there with you if I spent 1500 on a latop that does nothing but run the OS.

I didn't actually pay for it, but it does everything I need. I actually have an ethernet adapter that I've never used. And I very rarely use physical media like DVD's anyways. So what's the limitation?

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Sheaf

Okay Cad, so again give me an example of another laptop manufacturer innovating anything recently.

I'm sorry you don't agree that the unibody enclosure, glass multi-touch trackpad that functions as multiple buttons, or the magnetic power connector are innovations. How about you define what is innovation in the laptop space these days?

Well, innovation to me would have to change functionality in a meaningful manner at a specific, non-batshitcrazy price point.

Sorry but unibody, glass multitouch, magnetic power connector do not meaningfully change my portable computing experience. Perhaps they are vast innovations over previous mac laptops...

...but at that pricepoint I have a laptop that is about 50% more powerful that allows me to touch the screen and draw on it with a stylus.

[Sheaf]

Originally Posted by Horse

Apple won the iPod/iTunes war because they were the only combatant. It took a good while for anyone to release anything at that scale, and nobody has integrated their hardware + software with an online shop that you can buy songs for like $1.

Innovative business model, sure!

I think you're contradicting yourself here, but I'm not sure what you mean by "that scale". Regardless, the iPod had great UI, superior physical design, and a good syncing service that allowed for online music purchases. Whether it was just because they were the first as you said (sounds a bit like innovation) or the best, they won. And it wasn't through passing out Kool-Aid, at least not initially.

Originally Posted by Horse

And those solid color with white headphones and ipod ads were EVERYWHERE in nyc + chicago.

Apple didn't start ramping up those advertisements until a few years after the iPod was released.

[The Ancient]

You don't get it. It wasn't certainly wasn't that they were the first. They weren't the best by various metrics either: sound quality, price per MB...

What they were was the slickest. And they had the slickest marketing which you are apparently to deluded to remember.


Aired 11/2003

And oh LOOK! When did sales start ramping up?

[Sheaf]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

And oh LOOK! When did sales start ramping up?

Sorry, but market share is the important thing here. A new, innovative product that replaces a commonly used, established one rarely gets immediate massive traction. The fact that they grabbed initial market share while people slowly switched over from Walkmans tells the story.

Anyways, the argument here is not really going anywhere and I should have known better than to even bring it up on this forum. I mentioned multiple specific innovations that Apple has done in the laptop department and nobody has given a single example of any other company innovating at all in the same market space. Yes, it's a difficult space to innovate in since laptops have been around so long. The fact that analysts, journalists and the public consistently vote Apple as the most innovative company in the world might mean something, you know.

[Twobit Whore]

Sheaf is the epitome of what's wrong with Apple. It's not their overpriced inferior products but the people who support them with zealous fervor. Give me a ring when I can build my own Mac with 3rd party parts at competitive prices. Until then you can shove your proprietary plastic case and one button mouse up your ass.

[Mageling]

Originally Posted by Sheaf

Okay Cad, so again give me an example of another laptop manufacturer innovating anything recently.

I'm sorry you don't agree that the unibody enclosure, glass multi-touch trackpad that functions as multiple buttons, or the magnetic power connector are innovations. How about you define what is innovation in the laptop space these days?

How about the companies pushing Netbook technology and essentially creating disposible computers that offer the processing power to watch videos online, do your basic office work and get 6+ hours of battery life?

That's not the least bit fucking innovative.

You will never see a worthwhile Netbook from Apple because the pricepoint would be too high. The same shit happened to Sony and in some regards HP with their higher priced Netbooks. Fuck you if ou think I'm going to pay more than $400 for an internet terminal that I can bring wherever I want.

The best part when I had one of those was being able to tether my G1 to it so I could have internet coverage anywhere I had a cell signal, so uploading photos to Picasa while on vacation was easy and quick to accomplish to show my wife's family who is really into that type of stuff.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Sheaf

Sorry, but market share is the important thing here. A new, innovative product that replaces a commonly used, established one rarely gets immediate massive traction. The fact that they grabbed initial market share while people slowly switched over from Walkmans tells the story.

It wasn't even the fucking player. The grabbed market share after the secured contracts with the record companies and introduced iTunes which is around the time they started their slick marketing. But no...it was the superior innovative mp3 player. It used a goddamn wheel! Mind. Blown.

Conversation with my friend at the time:
"It has no moving parts!"
"Great, what does that mean?"
"I don't know but it's just so cool!"

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Sheaf

I think you're contradicting yourself here, but I'm not sure what you mean by "that scale". Regardless, the iPod had great UI, superior physical design, and a good syncing service that allowed for online music purchases. Whether it was just because they were the first as you said (sounds a bit like innovation) or the best, they won. And it wasn't through passing out Kool-Aid, at least not initially.

You used the qualifier "major." So take that and apply it to "that scale." There were mp3 players that did everything the ipod did without the wheel but they didn't have a massive business scale tying into a shop where you purchase songs. Pretty simple?

You didn't need Kool-Aid... iPod was literally the only large scale, multiple gigabyte MP3 player for *years.* All of the "we do what apple is doing except without itunes or the good design" products didn't come out for quite a while, and the ones that were 1/4th of the cost didn't come out till the massive ipods came out, with color and touch. I know this because I got the first generation creative zen for $100 where an equivalent ipod was $300. They'd been around for quite some time.




The wheel sucks. They've already pretty much dropped it, pressing and holding > rotating repeatedly.

So lets not confuse innovation with necessarily being positively progressive. The hardware sucked. My friend ran ipodsdirtylittlesecret which talked about how the battery would explode and you couldn't easily replace it.

Again, my shitty little mp3 player had solid state memory in it and still works today. iPod shelf life is nowhere near 10 years, I know that much.

I did agree the business model was innovative. There were dozens of business models looking for venture capital to do what iTunes did first. Too bad all that shit burst and only a behemoth riding on recent consumerist breakthroughs (iMac) could pull it off.

Apple didn't start ramping up those advertisements until a few years after the iPod was released.

They were everywhere in Chicago+NYC at launch. The tastemakers all had one. I guess having the first Apple Stores helps that along.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

You don't get it. It wasn't certainly wasn't that they were the first. They weren't the best by various metrics either: sound quality, price per MB...


And oh LOOK! When did sales start ramping up?

Well, what would be interesting is to see when the price drops occurred. With each new release the previous models would drop in price from "holy shit" to "i'm tempted."

I also wouldn't be surprised if those prices dropped were aligned with cheaper non-apple mp3 players becoming available.

Those few units sold up through 2004 probably made them more money than those massive sales later on, only because the fucking things cost as much as a cheap laptop...

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Horse

You didn't need Kool-Aid... iPod was literally the only large scale, multiple gigabyte MP3 player for *years.* All of the "we do what apple is doing except without itunes or the good design" products didn't come out for quite a while, and the ones that were 1/4th of the cost didn't come out till the massive ipods came out, with color and touch.

Nah as you can see when iPod actually took over the market there were products out that did they same thing. They just lacked iTunes and the iPod's marketing. I bought my 30gb Zen Xtra in 2004, I don't remember if the iPod even offered a 30gb model back then. If they did it was $600 or something rediculous.

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Sheaf

glass multi-touch trackpad that functions as multiple buttons

That's not innovation. That's playing catch-up to every god damn PC that's used a multi-button mouse since forever.

[ChewieTobbacca]

That reminds me. I actually had a zealot argue with me that he'd rather have a single mouse button and press a command key on a keyboard than a right click button. Are you fucking kidding me?

[Tolanin]

I like how much better my mouse and keyboard for my PC are today than 5 years ago, the same cant be said for mac, who has innovation again? PC innovates everything in the market cause its a thousand different companies all competing, apple innovates nothing cause its all hype over pretty white plastic.