Get skinny if fat from childhood?

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

Gecko you have given enough info to support your side but man up and concede, just because it works for you doesn't mean it can't work another way. Blew my mind about the whole eating thing but that is because I eat a large breakfast and being full while running was not appealing at all.

Just be open to other options is all, and if you aren't going to be no need to fight this internet war any longer.

I've read up on this and I admit there are respectable people who prefer eating first. Also, I absolutely would not give bodybuilder advice, or try and discuss people going for extremely low body fat numbers. Check my posts.

My main point is for weight loss morning cardio before breakfast has worked for me. I'd recommend it based on my results. I disagree regarding muscle loss. So do many Doctors. Science is on our side. I've lifted and done this for years and I'm in better shape.

I'm fully open to other opinions and I'm sure there are good theories and other programs that work, but this one is what I've seen work for me and others.

What I'm not open to is Slad and Veter trying to pass on that following an non-medical internet marketeer without a medical background for a personal weight loss program is smart.

I had hoped to have a good discussion using facts, but sadly very few are presented here.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by Gecko

I've read up on this and I admit there are respectable people who prefer eating first. Also, I absolutely would not give bodybuilder advice, or try and discuss people going for extremely low body fat numbers. Check my posts.

My main point is for weight loss morning cardio before breakfast has worked for me. I'd recommend it based on my results. I disagree regarding muscle loss. So do many Doctors. Science is on our side. I've lifted and done this for years and I'm in better shape.

I'm fully open to other opinions and I'm sure there are good theories and other programs that work, but this one is what I've seen work for me and others.

What I'm not open to is Slad and Veter trying to pass on that following an non-medical internet marketeer without a medical background for a personal weight loss program is smart.

I had hoped to have a good discussion using facts, but sadly very few are presented here.

Are you honestly so dumb that you don't realize where the methods you speak of came from? Fasted state cardio didn't come from the medical community, it came from the same place everything else in the fitness community came from...anecdotal evidence.

Fasted state cardio IS A BODYBUILDER THING. It is not recommended for people who are natural, in the case of many guru's/coaches. There is undeniable and acknowledged muscle loss from doing so. Even the proponents of it (Dante Trudel, Justin Harris, etc.), recommend either BCAA's or a scoop of whey(as chu mentioned) prior to doing cardio in order to combat catabolism THAT WILL OCCUR.

Once again, the reason shit like this is touted in Flex and Muscle&Fitness magazines is because those moronic writers don't know their ass from their hand and base their advice on what bodybuilders do. Even that idiot Stoppani who is their resident MD writes garbage.

Anyone using steroids and anti-catabolics such as clenbuterol can get away with doing fasted state cardio for long durations(45min+) and save their muscle because the drugs allow them to do so. For anyone that is natural, I am not saying that it will not cause you to lose fat. Of course it will.

Here is a quote from Layne Norton on the subject. He by the way is almost finished his PhD in Nutritional Sciences, and has done numerous studies on protein synthesis. This being one of them if anyone is interested in reading it: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1241801213

"Cardiovascular exercise has several myths surrounding it. The largest myth being that one should perform low intensity cardio in a fasted state. The logic being that if one is in a fasted state, their glycogen levels will be low and will force their body to burn fat. Unfortunately, this idea is misguided.

While performing cardio in a fasted state may indeed increase the amount of calories that are burned from fat stores, it will also increase amino acid oxidation. Cardiovascular exercise while in a fasted state is a great way to increase cortisol release. Cortisol will liberate amino acids to produce glucose (glucose cannot be synthesized from fats) and can lead to muscle loss.

Additionally, I find it ironic that many people take such great care to time their meals so that they do not go for more than 2-3 hours without eating in order to prevent muscle loss. However, they purposefully induce this state and then perform work on top of this!"

The quote is not from that article I linked, it is from a totally separate pre contest article.

Stop acting like medical doctors are the ones who promote anything that gym rats these days follow. It is the bodybuilding and fitness community that supplies the trial and error information regarding everything that is either successful or unsuccessful. You can take your personal doctor and nutritionist(what a fucking joke that one is), and go figure out your daily fiber and vitamin B intake. I'll be in the gym busting my ass and eating a high protein(oh noes doctors say its bad) and low carb(oh noes doctors say its bad) diet en route to sub 8% bodyfat over the next couple months. And spare me the "oh lolz check ur blud work it'll be all fuxed up". I had it done 2 months ago, it's perfect.

PS- Eat my dick

[arkk123]

I am still waiting for the proof that not eating after 8pm and then performing fasted, low intensity steady state cardio 12+ hours later will not contribute to muscle loss.

Please?

[Hatorade]

Gecko, ark gave you one fact, he confirmed he is gay because he wants you to eat his dick.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

ZING!

[Gecko]

I quote studies. You link to fucking forums. Way to go!

I'm still waiting for a proper response to my earlier posts. So far you've linked from Layne the meatheads site. Sorry, that doesn't cut it. You actually have a good point, but are just too stupid to make it.

You also are on some bizarre tangent from the original questions and points of this thread, trying to push opinions you have based on science you don't understand.

Proof, eh? The military has how many people who do Cardio early AM?

Another simple question: Have you ever done it or are you talking out of your ass? Didn't think so. So you are ignorant and full of shit.

In regards to the eating after 8, If you read my earlier post:

it's a simple guideline to help people diet smartly. Most people do decent during the day and then cheat and snack at night. That light night snack is when you go from 1800 calories to 2300 and lose your days work.

Most people here could grasp that point, made many posts again. Again, your lack of brainpower is preventing you from debating your side and presenting what should be an easy and valid point.

Finally, here are bullets from Tom Venuto, a very respected professional regarding my position and what I believe in, especially in relation to early am cardio:

there are many other reasons you might want to consider making it a part of your daily routine. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters, admits, "If I had to pick a single factor I thought was most important in a successful weight loss program, it would have to be to exercise first thing in the morning."

Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning:

1. When you wake up in the morning after an overnight 8-12 hour fast, your body’s stores of glycogen are somewhat depleted (especially if you are on a reduced carb diet and you cut back on carbs late in the day). Doing cardio in this state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.

2. Eating causes a release of insulin. Insulin interferes with the mobilization of body fat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore, more body fat is burned when cardio is done in the morning.

3. There is less carbohydrate (glucose) "floating around" in the bloodstream when you wake up after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you will burn more fat.

4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)

5. When you do cardio in the morning, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you burn calories during the session so you definitely benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.

Now, go read and make some valid points. No links to forums. Studies are good.

In short, gain more bearing, Ulrich. You aren't worthy to debate me here.

Hat: One problem..the roids have made him a eunuch. Sadly, no sex for him.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by Gecko

I quote studies. You link to fucking forums. Way to go!

I'm still waiting for a proper response to my earlier posts. So far you've linked from Layne the meatheads site. Sorry, that doesn't cut it. You actually have a good point, but are just too stupid to make it.

You also are on some bizarre tangent from the original questions and points of this thread, trying to push opinions you have based on science you don't understand.

Proof, eh? The military has how many people who do Cardio early AM?

Another simple question: Have you ever done it or are you talking out of your ass? Didn't think so. So you are ignorant and full of shit.

In regards to the eating after 8, If you read my earlier post:

it's a simple guideline to help people diet smartly. Most people do decent during the day and then cheat and snack at night. That light night snack is when you go from 1800 calories to 2300 and lose your days work.

Most people here could grasp that point, made many posts again. Again, your lack of brainpower is preventing you from debating your side and presenting what should be an easy and valid point.

Finally, here are bullets from Tom Venuto, a very respected professional regarding my position and what I believe in, especially in relation to early am cardio:



Now, go read and make some valid points. No links to forums. Studies are good.

In short, gain more bearing, Ulrich. You aren't worthy to debate me here.

Hat: One problem..the roids have made him a eunuch. Sadly, no sex for him.

I linked to a forum that had a PDF file with a study in it on the first post.

Using the army as a reference? LMAO. Don't they have guns? What does that have to do with their bodies? All of a sudden the Army is a leader in the fitness world.

Layne can be whatever you want him to be, but he is still a much more reliable source than your doctor and your nutritionist.

You have to be kidding me with the Tom Venuto stuff. Tom Venuto, I mean really? Really? Lol.

Originally Posted by arkk123

I am still waiting for the proof that not eating after 8pm and then performing fasted, low intensity steady state cardio 12+ hours later will not contribute to muscle loss.

Please?

Can you please prove that?

Lastly, this could go on forever. Since there is the body improvement competition on the sports foums, since we can both go back and forth on the forums all day. How would you like to make a little wager, as in real money, that by the end of it we can enter pictures into a special little category and let the forum decide what method were arguing over works better. They can get a panel of judges, it can even be filled with people who think im an idiot, because it won't matter. People have been bitching for 2 years for me to post a picture. Here is your chance to prove how dumb I am.

The last two times I made a proposition for someone to prove me wrong, and offered money to do so, they couldn't do it(the diesel legs dude, and the douche who said I didn't own a bar in wildwood). I think I used $1000 as the figure for both of them.

Put your money where your mouth is. I'll do zero steady state cardio and look 100x better than you, with the blood work to prove im healthy.

*Here come the OMG NERD RAGE posts*

[James]

Penis.

[Hatorade]

Not just any penis, nigga dick.

[Suineg]

I do an apple and a quart or so of water an hour before I run. Just enough to get some taste in my mouth other then death and to not make my stomach slosh around.

[Gecko]

First, the mocking of the military was pretty lame. It figures a douchebag like you never served. Military people are required to keep in shape, and I realize a dipshit like you equates random Army with military, but some of the best athletes in the world are in the US military. On top of that the USMC as a whole are all in fairly decent shape.

Originally Posted by arkk123

Lastly, this could go on forever. Since there is the body improvement competition on the sports foums, since we can both go back and forth on the forums all day. How would you like to make a little wager, as in real money, that by the end of it we can enter pictures into a special little category and let the forum decide what method were arguing over works better. They can get a panel of judges, it can even be filled with people who think im an idiot, because it won't matter. People have been bitching for 2 years for me to post a picture. Here is your chance to prove how dumb I am.

Before I mock you, I'm pretty happy with my weight and physique, and have no desire to lose anything. I don't bodybuild, and it appears you do. More power to you. I'll gladly take a pic of us shirtless together, but heck, it seems like you have negative bodyfat and will win that competition.

As I am just a simple athlete, and with a fair amount of body fat, If you'd like to prearrange to meet me at any Iron man triathalon, PM me and we can race and see who crosses the finish line first. That's more my avenue.

Any of the US ones are fine. This way it's not a roid test or HGH deal, but an actual physical competition. If that's too tough I'll be glad to do any marathon you'd like.

Sorry if I refuse to bet or offer anything real to someone on an anonymous message board, but the little I know of you I don't like or trust at all, sorry. Especially since you seem to go postal at people disagreeing with you in a way that stereotypes.. well, you know.

Onward to the mocking:

If appearances are so important, I have a different suggestion. Perhaps, you can bring your girlfriend to Ohio, then I'll fuck her, and she can determine who has a better body and is in better shape. I'll he happy to post pictures of me nailing her, and others can decide who is better.If you are homosexual, as Hatorade has implied, plz disregard.

The last two times I made a proposition for someone to prove me wrong, and offered money to do so, they couldn't do it(the diesel legs dude, and the douche who said I didn't own a bar in wildwood). I think I used $1000 as the figure for both of them.

So, what you are saying is you make a habit of taking real life offense to posts made on message boards, and must valiantly prove your honor with a duel! Pistols or swords?

Put your money where your mouth is. I'll do zero steady state cardio and look 100x better than you, with the blood work to prove im healthy.

*Here come the OMG NERD RAGE posts*

Oh Noez ROID RAGE. OMG HE's a FREAK.

Sorry, just trying to comply with the stereotype.

[arkk123]

Oh brother

didn't think sooooo

[Hatorade]

IBTR

[Gecko]

The Iron man triathalon competition is an open invite, if you think you're man enough.

Just PM me and you and I will do it. No American Idol stuff, we'll just see who is in better shape, mate.

Originally Posted by Hatorade

IBTR

Sadly, I contributed to this. I am ashamed.

[chu]

God Gecko you're so fucking stupid it's hurting my fucking nuts.

His entire point is that fasted cardio burns fat AND muscle. Your stupid anectodal evidence is only here because you're likely a twinky fucking lean piece of shit that never had any muscle to lose.

Now stop posting and go shit on your face.

[Tuco]

No tenks posts while I was in Chicago... Looks like we're going to see one less lying, poorly and overpriced dressed metrosexual round these parts in a few days.