American Grads Are "Unemployable"...

[Vim]

I recently found an article on DailyTech, one of my daily pages. The article irked me a little, especially since I am included in the American part of it and quite soon the Grad bit.

I was wondering if any of you all read it and shared my point of view, which mostly disagrees with the article.

Heres the article: DailyTech - CEO of Microsoft's Indian Partner Complains American Grads Are "Unemployable"

I was also wondering if anybody understood the part of "Inferior to those of India, China and Brazil" or am I living under a rock?

[NMTS]

I'd say that sounds about right

[AladainAF]

I think a fair number of american grads are pretty unemployable -- but for mainly different reasons than the article states. So I don't agree with the reasoning from the guy, but I do agree that a fair number are indeed unemployable. The main reason is a sense of entitlement that a lot of people have. That seems to be a stigma that mainly affects americans.

[Fog]

He elaborated that he views American tech grads as inferior to those from India, China, and Brazil as the Americans only want to "get rich" and dream up "the next big thing". He says students from countries like India, China, and Brazil are more willing to put the effort into "boring" details of tech process and methodology, such as ITIL, Six Sigma, etc.

Oh, OK. So American computer science graduates aren't learning sufficient management methodology-of-the-month buzzwords in order to work as a code monkey for a "boring" job for Mr. Vineet Nayar?

Well, isn't that just a real shame.

[Juvarisx]

I am not sure he cares what specifically they learn rather they go through the process of learning the boring shit as well.

[Sharmai]

I believe it's true but that's because college degrees aren't an accurate enoough indicator of who will be a good worker. Depending on the degree that is. This is anecdotal but currently I am working in what should be my after degree career job and have been for the last 3-4 years yet I don't get my college degree for another year. I the time that I got the job I have been promoted 4 times for my excellent work habits.

Something I've noticed is that 99% of the people who are hired where I work have a degree yet many of them still don't have the work ethic to understand what is required of them. many of them are daunted by the 3-6 months minnium training time just to become barely proficient with the software and they leave early because of that.

College is just not training people to work instead its training people how to get by in hard classes with information the majority of college grads will never use. I would be much happier with a degree system that taught you work ethic first and all those life studies later.

[Rum]

pretty much. Who spends time going through school / training to then have to work for a living?. this is america bro, show up each day, sit in the office chitchatting all day then collect 1k at the end of the week.

work? fucking please.. hide and seek for 1k a week.

[Fog]

Originally Posted by Vim

I was also wondering if anybody understood the part of "Inferior to those of India, China and Brazil" or am I living under a rock?

Yes. What he means is that he can hire an Indian or Chinese or Brazilian graduate for $7 an hour to make poorly-engineered software as a cog in his corporate machine, but American graduates usually cost more and sometimes actually want to be able to apply their expertise and write quality code.

[AladainAF]

I would be much happier with a degree system that taught you work ethic first and all those life studies later.

My dad taught me this shit before I started my first job when I was 14.

All you need to do to have a good work ethic is a few really simple things:

- Show up every day, on time. (Be reliable!)
- Present yourself professionally. (Be a good image for the company)
- Treat others (both bosses and direct reports) respectfully. (Be non-confrontational)
- Do the job you were hired to do - and do it to the best of your ability.

In that order. After being in the work force for several years, perception (the first 3 things) matter more than how well you do your job (as long as you can at least do it). Employeers would rather have people who do an "average" job but are reliable, show up on time, do not cause tension and bring a positive image to the company much more than a person who does a "stellar" job but are unreliable, confrontational and don't care about the image they portray from the company.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Fog

Oh, OK. So American computer science graduates aren't learning sufficient management methodology-of-the-month buzzwords in order to work as a code monkey for a "boring" job for Mr. Vineet Nayar?

Well, isn't that just a real shame.

After having attended far too many meetings and courses on Six Sigma and ITIL I'm pretty sure that shit was invented for the sole purpose of allowing people with business degree's to get some of that sweet, sweet technician money. Tech work was fine and dandy and they had to fuck it up and invent reasons to have more middle management where none was needed.

[Silence]

Originally Posted by Rum

pretty much. Who spends time going through school / training to then have to work for a living?. this is america bro, show up each day, sit in the office chitchatting all day then collect 1k at the end of the week.

work? fucking please.. hide and seek for 1k a week.

After the company I worked for was bought out, I worked in a black hole for almost two years with no job duties and no boss.

The hardest decision I had to make every day was trying to figure out what to have for lunch.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

After having attended far too many meetings and courses on Six Sigma and ITIL I'm pretty sure that shit was invented for the sole purpose of allowing people with business degree's to get some of that sweet, sweet technician money. Tech work was fine and dandy and they had to fuck it up and invent reasons to have more middle management where none was needed.

I've been"working" with the ITIL processes for about 2 years now, and this is pretty accurate. It's like they had to take "customer support", and then create bureaucracy around each facet or conceived facet of support, then come up with a bunch of rigid rules that don't always apply in the real world but have to be done exactly because that's what "ITIL says". It's job security for people who like meetings, and pure torture for people who enjoy the technical aspect of their job.

[Lleauaric~EW]

My Brother-In-Law works for a company based in Asia. (SK I think, not sure)

He is an engineer that helped design this really big, boring as fuck machine. I think he is the only non asian that works for this company post design.

I can tell you this.. they treat their employees like fucking garbage. All my BIL does is work, and take ridiculously last minute business trips where he is put up in the cheapest possible places, and has been forced to move from the West Coast to East Coast 4 times in the last 7 years.

Now, he doesn't mind, because he is odd and a bit of a tool and has no life. And he is high up the ladder.

He also works with alot of Asian engineers. He once told me he had to stay overnight in a company supplied apartment while his new apartment was being painted.. in that 2 bedroom loft lived 5 other asian engineers and giant smelly pot of Kimchi.

Additionally he under strict orders to NEVER show his check or discuss his pay with the engineers he works with. He thinks he earns about 4x what they are paying the Asians..

So yea.. I can see how American Engineers are unemployable. We are also unemployable in Salt Mines and Slave Galleys.

[Lusiphur]

I work with non-American HCL employees every day.

I can safely say that if you swept the local streets of wino's and bums and made them do the job instead of these people then the quality of output would be higher and the frustration level of the non-HCL staff would be much lower.

To tl;dr the statement linked "American graduates expect unreasonable things like pay and decent working conditions, this doesn't make me more money so American grads are t3h suck".

[Tuco]

Japanese>German||American>Chinese>Indian

Indians make avoiding work part of their job, and Chinese are dishonest. Japanese get worked up over details but when things are done their way it's better, and Germans also need to have things done with a tight process before they can perform, but this often hinders them. Americans cut corners.