Abortion Doctor shot in Wichita

[Tuco]

anyone who posts anencphaly pics in this thread is banned for a week btw fuck I shouldn't even read this thread

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by Alcestis

There's no reasoning with someone who believes his opinions are unshakable fact.

Don't respond to me. I won't see it.

I like her.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Alcestis

Again, you're using (your wife's lawl) personal experience to prattle on.

You're only half right. Because of the risk involved with amnio, doctors only like to do it when they see an abnormality in the first place OR there is a predetermined genetic risk. Setting aside the latter, the former finding of the abnormality is done by, you guessed it, ultrasound. Ultrasound FIRST, invasive shit second. My point was, you buffoon, that the tests you put so much stock in can be wrong. Doctors misread ultrasounds until subsequent ones, they do not catch symptoms, results are skewed, a monkey shits on their machinery and the feces is mistaken for a tumor, whatever. Not every neural tube defect is a grapefruit sized sack filled with CSF and nerves hanging of the base of the spine. Yeah, it could've been caught at week 20. Sure, they might have caught the risk at week 16 when they did an AFB, or some other week if they did a CVS.

If tests can be wrong, it also stands that an abortion could be indicated as a result of those tests being wrong. If there are conditions that can be missed, there could be a present or future condition that exists. Your wife's super awesome experience, your gut instinct, our opinions, all completely fucking irrelevant. I do not know of a condition, but then again, I also admit that I could not possibly know every single outcome with certainty enough to make an idiotic, unprovable statement like you did. If you can't even acknowledge that there could be a condition without busting out stupid shit like "always! never! all the time!", regardless of whether there is one documented or not, this argument should make like the thread topic and be aborted. There's no reasoning with someone who believes his opinions are unshakable fact.

Don't respond to me. I won't see it.

.

[Suineg]

Originally Posted by Alcestis

Again, you're using (your wife's lawl) personal experience to prattle on.

Wrong, I was there for every amnio done and you can get all of that information on the internet of how 0.06% of amnio's go wrong.

You're only half right. Because of the risk involved with amnio, doctors only like to do it when they see an abnormality in the first place OR there is a predetermined genetic risk. Setting aside the latter, the former finding of the abnormality is done by, you guessed it, ultrasound. Ultrasound FIRST, invasive shit second. My point was, you buffoon, that the tests you put so much stock in can be wrong. Doctors misread ultrasounds until subsequent ones, they do not catch symptoms, results are skewed, a monkey shits on their machinery and the feces is mistaken for a tumor, whatever. Not every neural tube defect is a grapefruit sized sack filled with CSF and nerves hanging of the base of the spine. Yeah, it could've been caught at week 20. Sure, they might have caught the risk at week 16 when they did an AFB, or some other week if they did a CVS.

Seen a lot of ultrasounds have you? Speaking from personal experience or just thoughts? I have seen more then my fair share PERSONALLY.

Uh, except amniocentesis carries its own risks to the fetus itself which some mothers just don't care to take; US is non-invasive and carries none.

You misunderstood it. Amnio is never done without it being already identified via Ultrasound... I never said amnio would be done first or even needs to be done just that it's a formality and is never wrong. You were the one saying abortion is good because an amnio is invasive and carries risks....

I am not putting stock in Ultrasound other then you can detect all of these syndromes that you are claiming are the reason for late term abortion way earlier in the pregnancy by standard ultrasound which is the test YOU prefer and I never put down.

I do not know of a condition, but then again, I also admit that I could not possibly know every single outcome with certainty enough to make an idiotic, unprovable statement like you did. If you can't even acknowledge that there could be a condition without busting out stupid shit like "always! never! all the time!", regardless of whether there is one documented or not, this argument should make like the thread topic and be aborted. There's no reasoning with someone who believes his opinions are unshakable fact.

Congrats on flipping the script. You think there 'could' be but there isn't right now. That means all of these people spouting off this garbage about late term abortion being so awesome and they are saving mothers lives is just garbage RIGHT NOW. I 'could' grow a vagina and become a woman but right now I am a man. You can't make policy governing human lives with what 'could' be. You have to make them based on what IS. Right now there is nothing supporting late term abortion medically since every case can be induced and it no longer be a strain or even an issue to the mother (I will concede rape since to not would be a moron).

NOT ONCE HAVE I PRESENTED OPINION AS FACT NOT TO MENTION UNSHAKABLE.

Countless times you have ignored the fact that I condone abortion as a concept and with stricter guidelines. I have quoted them a half dozen times to bring them out again and again. I have spent hours looking for a single MEDICAL reason to abort rather then induce past the 2nd trimester when the medical field defines viability. Not a single case out there.

I swear if one more idiot brings up a case of a dead baby they are a complete moron and their reading comprehension is nil.

[Cad]

If Suineg isn't a good argument for late-term abortion, I don't know what is. Thanks man.

[Suineg]

Originally Posted by Chanur

There would be more circumstances if medical records were not private. Stop being a fucking retard.

We went over this. You wouldn't have a single statistic about abortion at all if that was the case.

Do you understand the difference between privacy and case studies? Do you not understand how ecstatic the entire pro choice movement would be if they had one fallback disease/syndrome that was so toxic at the third trimester it would require the baby to be aborted just to save that poor woman's life?

There isn't one. Instead we get ambiguous one liners explaining why we need late term abortions like below from the planned parenthood website.

Abortions after fetal viability take place in the most compelling of circumstances.

Well if you just would have let me know it was 'compelling' I would have understood way at the beginning.

[Cad]

Compelling just means it's only done on a case by case basis with medical and probably legal approval. But you know that, you're just arguing to be a fuckhead. Shut the fuck up already.

[Suineg]

Originally Posted by Cad

If Suineg isn't a good argument for late-term abortion, I don't know what is. Thanks man.

Wow with the sensitive jokes. I hope you stick to your 'guns' on abortion I guess is the proper comeback. Then I should say something about not reproducing etc.. etc...

Glad we have your witty repertoire here.

[Suineg]

Oh and whoever negged me with:

Fuck you -Slippery slope to no-rights for women.

should look at your priorities very deeply. Late term abortion has led to partial birth abortion and that will lead to selective abortions based on gene matching/traiting in utero which will lead to a whole myriad of issues with human rights.....

Taking one step back isn't tantamount to binding women' feet so they look prettier. You are just putting in and enforcing guidelines that are already supposed to be there but are more loose then getting a legal pot smoking license in the state of California.

[Azrayne]

Looking for a safe stance on abortion? Me neither.

[Fyro]

You guys have beat the horse of the topic of late-term abortions, but I am wondering how you all feel about abortions that are done as quick as possible.

I know abortion shouldn`t be seen as birth control, but as we all know people make mistakes and birth control doesn`t work 100% of the time as I know for fact. Holding people acountable for getting pregnant and making them bring their would-be baby to term is fucking stupid, obviously people need to be responsible for their actions, but my forcing them to bring another life into this world? That is just stupid. As for the adoption, there are tons of kids out their without parents, if every abortion except for those in the extreme cases was canceled, how many more kids would be put out there into foster homes, or worse into families that don`t want them or don`t have the resources to take care of them.

It is nice to think that everyone should be held responsible for their actions, but it is not practical at all. Punishing people for their mistakes is cool and all, but when it involves another life being brought into this world to be the punishment, it just doesn`t work. Furthermore, unlike the common assumption, abortion even in the first weeks is a difficult descision and not something done on a whim.

Day after pill, Is that Abortion? I think not, but if there was conception, what then? How bout abortions within 2-3 weeks? From what I have garnered from this thread is that most people are iffy on the subject of abortion and everyone says that in the case of rape, incest, or harm/death to the mother it is ok. But, what about the case of a fucked up life for the would-be child and or would-be parents?

Terminating a pregnancy within 2-3 weeks or as soon as it is known to me is not killing a baby in the slightest. It is ending the possiblity of the would-be-childs life, which is a far shot from killing a person as some of you have said. Using a condom is ending a would-be-child in the same sense. A few pages back someone mentioned, the future is not now. This is how I feel about early on abortions, you are not killing a baby, you are terminating what-would become a baby, which is not that same thing at all.

edit- It is late, sorry if I rambled.

[BurnemWizfyre]

I've always personally been against abortion, however i am pro-choice. I'm just not one of those fucktards that think my opinion on this matter actually means anything to anyone in the position of having to make the choice. People who are very strongly against abortion, well i side with this man.

[chthonic-anemos]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

Looking for a safe stance on abortion? Me neither.

internet nostalgia here

[Azrayne]

I know hey, someone made a comment about aborting live people and for some reason it popped into my head.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Suineg

Seen a lot of ultrasounds have you? Speaking from personal experience or just thoughts? I have seen more then my fair share PERSONALLY.

Considering she's a nurse, I'd put a fair amount of money on the fact that shes seen more ultrasounds than you.