Grobbee Wants Communism to Subsidize His Leeching

[MrSpitz]

I just wanted to say, it is still hilarious that someone who has a teaching degree, a baby on the way, and has been railing about how communism is such a good system has 10,000 dollars in credit card debt. Thank you so much for splitting this thread, fucking tits man.

The problem with capitalism in this country is that the baby boomer's and more so their kids are these spoiled rotten fucking generations of people who were pampered rotten by our emergence as one of the sole industrial powers post WWII and riding such a wave of wealth and opportunities in the past that they have either gone 'soft' or produced a subsequent generation of people who expect to be rich upon birth, which relative to the rest of the world you pretty much are if you are born here and posting on foh. Work harder.

Or, you know, have a kid out of wedlock, tally up 4 figures of CC debt outside your education (while you continue to buy more stuff... nice 40 inch monitor though), and then just leave. I mispoke before, that went from funny to really just sad. After a 12 hour day today and a 13 hour day on friday, what the fuck happened to this country? What kind of parents produced someone like you? Man....

[Heavens_Myst]

Originally Posted by Xantium

The evils of capitalism are pretty easy to spot, all you have to do is realize "profit" is just a euphemism for "uneven exchange of wealth" and you're off to the races.

This only holds true if you assume labor is all that produced the good or service that was transacted.

And that assumption is false.

[Mario Speedwagon]

It's pretty easy to find the evils of capitalism. Turn on your TV for 5 minutes to literally any cable channel and it will be rammed down your throat. Especially the "news" channels.

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by Heavens_Myst

This only holds true if you assume labor is all that produced the good or service that was transacted.

And that assumption is false.

except it's not an assumption; it's a fact, and it's true. the capitalist doesn't produce anything: he simply exploits and exchanges. capitalism 'allows' investment in order to produce goods, but nothing is produced by the capitalist. if another economic system was in place, the impetus to produce would be from something else. as it stands, capitalism is probably the worst because as stated, it's based on the idea of exploitation, which subjectively speaking, is kinda bad. =P

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by MrSpitz

I just wanted to say, it is still hilarious that someone who has a teaching degree, a baby on the way, and has been railing about how communism is such a good system has 10,000 dollars in credit card debt. Thank you so much for splitting this thread, fucking tits man.

Or, you know, have a kid out of wedlock, tally up 4 figures of CC debt outside your education (while you continue to buy more stuff... nice 40 inch monitor though), and then just leave. I mispoke before, that went from funny to really just sad. After a 12 hour day today and a 13 hour day on friday, what the fuck happened to this country? What kind of parents produced someone like you? Man....

You're smart. Your reading comprehension is lacking, because a lot of what you're bitching about has been answered before.

1. I don't have a teaching degree. I will have an ENGLISH degree with a TESOL certificate, that enables me to teach ESL overseas, and in Ohio (at least, probably more).

2. Actually, the child will be born into wedlock, the wedding is July 18th. Not that that means anything to us, because we're not religious. Helps for uppity fucks like you that will judge anything for any reason, though.

3. $10,000 in debt over 7 years, not all of which spent enrolled in classes. The average debt per household is $18,654 not including a mortgage, and since I don't have one of those and instead have $18,000 in student loans, I'm actually ahead of the fucking game. You owe more than I do, yet... here you are, telling me I owe too much money. AWESOME LOGIC.

4. While I continue to buy more stuff. Yep. Except, if you read the thread, I've had this monitor paid off for 3 years, which was before the majority of this debt accrued. I used to run a balance of about $2,500 in debt before I stopped working to focus on getting A's instead of B/C's. A lot can happen in three years, unexpected health changes, marriages, divorces, etc. But yeah, cool.

After a 12 hour day today and a 13 hour day on friday, what the fuck happened to this country? What kind of parents produced someone like you?

You happened to this country. Why in the flying blue fuck should you have to work 25 hours over two days as part of a normal anything? If that's not normal for you, why are you using extreme cases to justify anything? And if that IS normal for you, well, I just feel bad for you.

I mean, unless you just love what you do so much that you stayed there that long. But I doubt that was why.

As to my parents? Well, their fault is they love me too much, I suppose, and just want me to be happy in what I do, rather than miserable in what they did all of their lives. See, they toiled and slaved away all of their lives, living on the edge of poverty for all but the last 10 years or so (until my dad retired 5 years ago, and the stock market plummeted, then back down they slid). 60 years of my dad's life spent working long, hard hours doing old-school HVAC before getting a break at the age of 50 and getting into management. He's 70 this year, and with a hugely diminished retirement savings (thank you, stock market) and he told me that all he ever wanted was for me to enjoy my life, because he didn't enjoy his.

My mother spent all of her adult life as a nurse in an OR/ER and has numerous stress-related/nerve-related ailments to show for it. She's never made a lot of money, and she makes something like $18,000 a year as a school nurse... just so they can have cheap(er) insurance.

My father and mother share the sentiment that their lives have been nothing but work, and that seeing me getting to enjoy life has been worth it for them. They never wanted me to have to go through what they went through, and that's enough for me. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, but that's okay.

I know what's truly important in life, and money and wealth isn't it. Yes, I'll "work," but since I'll be doing something I love, it won't be "work" to me, and I won't be toiling endlessly, day after day trying to attain something that doesn't even fucking matter.

And now back to your regularly scheduled bitchfest.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Heavens_Myst

This only holds true if you assume labor is all that produced the good or service that was transacted.

And that assumption is false.

Four $10's, a $20, and three nickels didn't make the chair from an oak tree in Oregon.

See, in every step of the way, labor is needed. The only reason money exists is as a "credit" or "store of value" for labor. LABOR.

Everywhere you see "capital," just replace it with LABOR. Because it was labor that earned it. The fact that profit is made just means that someone was shorted on their labor, but it still came FROM labor. If you make a profit of 5% on someone's labor, that is 5% that you took from them, and kept for yourself.

But if we're all honest, upstanding citizens, morally just and righteous, why would we dare short someone on what they're owed? Do you pay a taxi driver 5% less than he's owed? Do you have plumbing work done, and pay them 5% less than the invoice?

It's the same with interest. Interest is a Capitalist's best friend (and my worst enemy, as evidenced by this thread) and it is the quintessence of laziness. So, because you stole from others, and then lent out the proceeds, that entitles you to charge EXTRA for giving someone a portion of another's stolen labor.

That's perhaps the most unjust system I've ever heard of.

[Cad]

Why is anybody owed 100% of the value of their labor, defined as the actual value created by that labor? Do taxi drivers ask you where you're going and figure out how much it would cost you to miss that, then charge you appropriately based on how much value they created for you? Or do they charge a flat rate based on how far they went/how long it took?

The business owner does provide something, he provides the means to operate the business. All those laborers you think are owed something? Who do you think provides that? Workers get paid immediately - in the commercial world do you think you get paid immediately? Whats an average accounts receivable time in any commercial industry - 60 days? 90 days? I know in my business the customers took their sweet time paying, but we paid salaries anyway. Who provided that money? Who provided the initial money to develop the products? It's not LABOR, but it is VALUE.

I also find it funny that it chaps your ass that the capitalist class can make money without actually laboring while you yourself are skirting labor as best you can. The hypocrisy is just dripping. You're essentially just jealous some people don't have to labor and instead provide value through their wealth, while you come from blue collar middle class people and you have a life of work ahead of you. Suck it up.

[MrSpitz]

10,000 of credit card debt is absurd, ABSURD. There is no reason on this earth to accumulate that much debt in that area. Car loans, mortgages, education loans, these are debts that are understandable (cars are expensive, housing bubble or not houses are expensive, education is too expensive) and have separate avenues. And quite honestly, you are ahead of maybe 1/100th of the people who have more debt than you, because they are not running from it. Oh and you certainly aren't ahead of me, champ.

I worked 25 hours the last two days because I love the feeling of exhaustion and being shut in away from the world. No, I love what I do, I think what I do is important, and I'm on a track to 'get over the hump' and make it to an easier lifestyle and better position (oh fucking shit, work hard to move up? insane). But that's science, it's a different lifestyle and it ebbs and flows, I can't claim to pull hours like that routinely, but I do when I have to considering a lot of the money used to fund the work I'm doing is coming from the NIH (tax payers / government) and don't feel like wasting it. Of course I could have let some shit slide and wasted some materials, which would have wasted some money but hey, that's just not how I am. Sorry China runner, I just think you are lazy and irresponsible. Enjoy communism, they will be lucky to have you.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Why is anybody owed 100% of the value of their labor, defined as the actual value created by that labor?

You talk about responsibilities, doing what's right, and not bailing on your obligations, yet you don't feel obligated to give people 100% of their value. You actually think it's COMMENDABLE and JUST to exploit others! That it's the ONLY way to operate.

The business owner does provide something, he provides the means to operate the business.

He does nothing the laborers could not do themselves. You seem to not understand the basic tenants of Communism, and instead spout platitudes of why it's bad, and what's wrong with it.

I also find it funny that it chaps your ass that the capitalist class can make money without actually laboring while you yourself are skirting labor as best you can.

Yeah, that's me, skirting labor. You're just willfully fucking retarded at this point, because to you, working less than 60 hours a week is "skirting labor."

Here's how it works in China:

You get a contract with a school, and this contract is binding between you and the Chinese government. They provide you with a visa for entry and work as a Foreign Expert, and in return, you follow the contract issued by the school. It is ILLEGAL to work side-jobs (though many do) and since I'd like to stay in China for a pretty lengthy period of time, and the Chinese government is hardass and throws out foreigners for things less than that, I'm not going to risk it.

Thus, I can only work as much as the school wants me to. By working the 16-20 contact hours and 10-15 planning hours, I will be working what is considered by the entire Western world a full-time job.

But, according to you, I'm skirting labor. No, I'm not skirting labor, I'm skirting interest, Capitalism, and a rotten fucking system that appalls me.

[Dumar]

the problem with saying that business is needed for laborers to operate is that you're not looking at the real picture; you're still mangled in 'isms'. business is not needed. what you're saying is that capitalists are needed in capitalism, which should be obvious. =P

[Soriak]

What is communistic about China? You have a contract with the government to teach English - sounds about the same as working at a public school in any western country. Maybe the pay or workload is different from schools in the US, but that by itself doesn't make it communism or socialism. In fact, there's just about nothing communistic about China anymore - at least not as far as the economy is concerned. (The party of course controls the social and political spheres, but with you being liberal I'd have thought you'd oppose that. e.g. the one child rule that effectively only applies to the poor - the rich just pay a little extra.)

Wouldn't you be happier in a liberal northern European country? Or do they not take foreigners to teach English? Mind you, I'm all for people moving abroad to whatever country best suits their interests. We're for the most part in a global labor market and the freedom for people to pick a place to work and live is one of its greatest advantages. I'm just a little surprised that China is the destination of choice for you.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

You talk about responsibilities, doing what's right, and not bailing on your obligations, yet you don't feel obligated to give people 100% of their value. You actually think it's COMMENDABLE and JUST to exploit others! That it's the ONLY way to operate.

So now giving people jobs and paying them wages they willingly work to get is exploitation. Interesting. Love how you ignored my taxicab example of calculating "value", you seem to think the laborers are the only ones entitled to anything, which is just laughable.

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

He does nothing the laborers could not do themselves. You seem to not understand the basic tenants of Communism, and instead spout platitudes of why it's bad, and what's wrong with it.

Why don't they do it then? Why is EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS EVERYWHERE owned by some rich guy "exploiting" people? If these laborers can do it without capital, it would be to their advantage to do so, wouldn't it? Or does the guy with the money supply something they cannot, and therefore bring value to the business.. hmm.. I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Yeah, that's me, skirting labor. You're just willfully fucking retarded at this point, because to you, working less than 60 hours a week is "skirting labor."

No, I'm not skirting labor, I'm skirting interest, Capitalism, and a rotten fucking system that appalls me.

You're willfully picking the easiest job you can find that will allow you subsist while you "explore and adventure." Which is fine, it's your life. Just don't act like you're doing your part to help society. You're a fucking leech and if you were killed in an accident society would be better off.

[Darus Grey]

So now giving people jobs and paying them wages they willingly work to get is exploitation.

I can only hope you're kidding...

[splok]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

why would we dare short someone on what they're owed?

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

I'm skirting interest

Ok, so your debt consists of $10,000 + whatever you have in student loans. You gained benefits from the use of something that wasn't yours. Is that worth nothing to you? If not, then why take on the debt? Interest is the price of getting what you want without having to save for it beforehand. If there were no interest, you wouldn't have whatever your debt bought you because no one would have had any incentive to loan you the money.

If you disagree with the interest, you shouldn't have agreed to it by taking on the debt, but you did.

Of course, the thing in question isn't even bailing on interest. You're talking about bailing on the debt entirely, so complaining about interest is only a fraction of, what is essentially your theft from your lenders. So indeed, why would you dare short someone on what they're owed (and by shorting, I mean stealing the entire amount from)?

[Drauk]

Originally Posted by TheMarauder

Let's look at how Russia was before the Bolsheviks. An extremely backward and oppressive nation that was still practicing serfdom.

Get you facts straight. Serfdom was cancelled in 1861, 56 years before revolution (and 4 years before US abondoned slavery). Russian Empire was one of the largest (if not largest) net exporter of grain. 10 years after revolution famine has killed several million people.

Also, don't forget that it is pretty well known by now that Lenin was funded by Germany and most likely UK.