Even Israeli Soldiers Report Human rights abuses

Kaio · 03-20-2009, 04:03 PM

""When we entered a house, we were supposed to bust down the door and start shooting inside and just go up story by story," he was quoted as saying. "Each story, if we identify a person, we shoot them. I asked myself: 'How is this reasonable?' ""

I'm at work and didn't really read past the first few paragraphs but it's still a bit of an eye opener.

Israeli soldiers report abuses in Gaza - Los Angeles Times

Edit: at least israeli soldiers care about such violations...but that might be the luxury of the more powerful.

Azrayne · 03-20-2009, 04:05 PM

Don't be so anti-semitic, jews don't hurt people. They had to deal with the holocaust and stuff, how dare you suggest that they're just as prone towards violence and human rights abuse as any other nation!

Chanur · 03-20-2009, 04:23 PM

I don't think anyone ever said Israel was anything but extreme in their responses.

Zhaun's_Shade · 03-20-2009, 04:35 PM

I think I am becoming a bad person. When I first heard this I was more dissapointed in the soldier's "tattleing" than I was upset at the Israelis killing people.

I'm not sure what to think about that.

Azrayne · 03-20-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

I think I am becoming a bad person. When I first heard this I was more dissapointed in the soldier's "tattleing" than I was upset at the Israelis killing people.

I'm not sure what to think about that.

Yes, that makes you a horrible person. I'm not even being sarcastic, that's not cool.

Soriak · 03-20-2009, 06:18 PM

Almost impossible to believe that they could top their use of white phosphor. Sure, it hides tanks - but it also happens to burn the flesh off people standing in the area of where it comes down. When it's used in an urban area where people live, that's hardly "reasonable."

They have a remarkably worthless government. Their asses belong in a small cell in the Hague.

Not like actions like that protect their citizens. If my relatives were killed in such a fashion, you bet I'd take up arms against whoever caused their deaths.

Snugglebear · 03-20-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soriak

Almost impossible to believe that they could top their use of white phosphor. Sure, it hides tanks - but it also happens to burn the flesh off people standing in the area of where it comes down. When it's used in an urban area where people live, that's hardly "reasonable."

They have a remarkably worthless government. Their asses belong in a small cell in the Hague.

Not like actions like that protect their citizens. If my relatives were killed in such a fashion, you bet I'd take up arms against whoever caused their deaths.

I wish we would stop selling it to them. It just shouldn't be used in city warfare with high populations of civilians. And since we gave Israel the nuclear option, they probably won't be using it against an armed force in open-field battles. I was against our marines using it in Fallujah (both times), and I'm definitely against this shit in areas that haven't even been evacuated like Gaza.

Kaio · 03-21-2009, 03:42 AM

Wow, one news post about Israeli abuses and i get multiple negs. I guess the news is also biased against the jews despite having a much greater influence over western media then fucking Palestinians. It's not like i'm calling palestinians angels. My only point is that it's far from black vs. white as many in the U.S. try to claim.

Arbuste · 03-21-2009, 03:59 AM

If you're just discovering that the situation in the Middle East is not all black and white, you might be a little naive.

Nobody should be surprised either when it's reported that some fucked up things have been happening during a war.

Azrayne · 03-21-2009, 04:02 AM

Absolute must see documentary on the Israel/Palestine conflict and how it's portrait in western (and particularly American) media. Nearly an hour and a half, but worth every second of it.

Erronius · 03-21-2009, 06:30 AM

I have to give those soldiers credit for coming forward, assuming the claims do indeed turn out to be true. There is a fine line between doing what's right, and narcing on your fellow soldiers, and groups of soldiers usually have a ton of peer pressure that dissuades people from ever saying anything at all. Plus, these soldiers that came forward might very well have 86'ed their own careers and made themselves pariahs of a sort in speaking out, and they were more than likely cogent of that. That makes the fact that they did indeed come out with it, impressive.

Now, hopefully the Israelis won't just sweep it under the carpet, and end up making it look suspicious simply because they did so. I'm not sure the Israelis will be willing to go after their own soldiers given the nature of the conflict over there, though.

earthfell · 03-21-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbuste

If you're just discovering that the situation in the Middle East is not all black and white, you might be a little naive.

Nobody should be surprised either when it's reported that some fucked up things have been happening during a war.

Not his fault. Our media paints Israel like a fucking poster child. If anyone says anything bad about Israel's acts against Palestinians no less than 20 government officials will appear on CNN or FOX to rattle off their Israel is a victim dogma.

I think Israel is more in the wrong. First, they initiated this entire situation with their land grab, thanks to us no less. Second, they have one of the most powerful armies in the world... and they use it against a bunch of poor brown folk. Power takes responsibility, and Israel only has power. Not that I have too much room to talk, being American.

Israel's motto: For every terrorist we kill we make five more.

sachemsiouxx · 03-21-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snugglebear

And since we gave Israel the nuclear option

I tried to read what I could find on the way Israel got the nuclear "option", and what I read was less "You giving it to them" than "them taking it from you".
I would respectfully invite you to make a bit of research on the subjet.

Szlia · 03-21-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erronius

Plus, these soldiers that came forward might very well have 86'ed their own careers and made themselves pariahs of a sort in speaking out, and they were more than likely cogent of that.

The Israel Defense Forces are a conscript army, so the career part probably does not apply here.

Fog · 03-21-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earthfell

Not his fault. Our media paints Israel like a fucking poster child.

Oh, OK. And the primary place we learn about the world nowadays is television and newspapers, right?

03-20-2009, 04:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kaio Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,332 +6 Internets	Even Israeli Soldiers Report Human rights abuses ""When we entered a house, we were supposed to bust down the door and start shooting inside and just go up story by story," he was quoted as saying. "Each story, if we identify a person, we shoot them. I asked myself: 'How is this reasonable?' "" I'm at work and didn't really read past the first few paragraphs but it's still a bit of an eye opener. Israeli soldiers report abuses in Gaza - Los Angeles Times Edit: at least israeli soldiers care about such violations...but that might be the luxury of the more powerful. Last edited by Kaio; 03-20-2009 at 04:05 PM..

03-21-2009, 03:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
Arbuste No sense beating a dead horse. Unless it's one of those zombie horses. You can't beat them enough. Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,027 +3 Internets	If you're just discovering that the situation in the Middle East is not all black and white, you might be a little naive. Nobody should be surprised either when it's reported that some fucked up things have been happening during a war. Last edited by Arbuste; 03-21-2009 at 04:03 AM..

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03-20-2009, 04:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
Azrayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Awsome Posts: 2,952	Don't be so anti-semitic, jews don't hurt people. They had to deal with the holocaust and stuff, how dare you suggest that they're just as prone towards violence and human rights abuse as any other nation!

03-20-2009, 04:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Chanur Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 1,789 -29 Internets	I don't think anyone ever said Israel was anything but extreme in their responses.

03-20-2009, 04:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zhaun's_Shade Death Panel Supporter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 3,131 -8 Internets	I think I am becoming a bad person. When I first heard this I was more dissapointed in the soldier's "tattleing" than I was upset at the Israelis killing people. I'm not sure what to think about that.

03-20-2009, 06:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 6,114 +54 Internets	Almost impossible to believe that they could top their use of white phosphor. Sure, it hides tanks - but it also happens to burn the flesh off people standing in the area of where it comes down. When it's used in an urban area where people live, that's hardly "reasonable." They have a remarkably worthless government. Their asses belong in a small cell in the Hague. Not like actions like that protect their citizens. If my relatives were killed in such a fashion, you bet I'd take up arms against whoever caused their deaths.

03-21-2009, 03:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kaio Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,332 +6 Internets	Wow, one news post about Israeli abuses and i get multiple negs. I guess the news is also biased against the jews despite having a much greater influence over western media then fucking Palestinians. It's not like i'm calling palestinians angels. My only point is that it's far from black vs. white as many in the U.S. try to claim.

03-21-2009, 04:02 AM	#10 (permalink)
Azrayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Awsome Posts: 2,952	Absolute must see documentary on the Israel/Palestine conflict and how it's portrait in western (and particularly American) media. Nearly an hour and a half, but worth every second of it.