Health Care

[Arative]

Wilson apologizes: 'I let my emotions get the best of me'

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Arative

Wilson apologizes: 'I let my emotions get the best of me'

Stupid fucking Southerner.

[cosmic_cs]

Originally Posted by Soriak

In practice, this shouldn't make a notable difference. It goes in line with no longer being able to deny people for pre-existing conditions.

Say you have an illness that costs $40k/year and you have a lifetime cap of $200k. After 5 years, you would have hit your cap and you'd lose your insurance benefits. As it is now, you couldn't get any insurance to cover the illness, because now it is a known pre-existing condition. You might be able to get group coverage through a (large) employer, but no individual insurance. If companies cannot deny you for a pre-existing condition, the lifetime cap makes no sense anymore: otherwise you're kicked out of insurance A, only to sign up with insurance B that would have to pay for your illness. There'd be a perverse incentive to kick sick patients to other insurance companies.

Bleh, this might sound messed up, but I think there SHOULD be a master cap on health coverage. In this day and age, a single patient can cost $500k+ to "treat". It's much more cost effective to have a cap and provide better care to people who cost less money. If we don't have a cap, then a few people with annoying diseases would not only make health care more expensive but also decrease the quality of care for everyone else.

Having a cap on health care is similar to the situation with organ donations. There are only so many organs to transplant. Not everyone can get their own organ. Some people have to die. It's the reality of the situation.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by cosmic_cs

Bleh, this might sound messed up, but I think there SHOULD be a master cap on health coverage. In this day and age, a single patient can cost $500k+ to "treat". It's much more cost effective to have a cap and provide better care to people who cost less money. If we don't have a cap, then a few people with annoying diseases would not only make health care more expensive but also decrease the quality of care for everyone else.

Having a cap on health care is similar to the situation with organ donations. There are only so many organs to transplant. Not everyone can get their own organ. Some people have to die. It's the reality of the situation.

So... we should shoot AIDS patients?

[cosmic_cs]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

So... we should shoot AIDS patients?

No, rather than choosing the newest most expensive medications for them in a health plan without a cap, we choose the cheaper generic medications, which would probably let them live 15-20 years after getting HIV before they hit the cap.

A health plan without a cap is probably being pushed by drug manufacturers. In this environment, drug reps and companies will rule the world. Doctors don't give a crap about costs. They'll just prescribe the newest drug that is some minor variation of a generic that has the same efficacy as the brand.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by cosmic_cs

No, rather than choosing the newest most expensive medications for them in a health plan without a cap, we choose the cheaper generic medications, which would probably let them live 15-20 years after getting HIV before they hit the cap.

A health plan without a cap is probably being pushed by drug manufacturers. In this environment, drug reps and companies will rule the world. Doctors don't give a crap about costs. They'll just prescribe the newest drug that is some minor variation of a generic that has the same efficacy as the brand.

So we treat AIDS patients with half-assed treatments for a decade or two, then shoot them?

[Talineth]

No, but we could make "The Colony" a much more interesting show to watch!

[cosmic_cs]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

So we treat AIDS patients with half-assed treatments for a decade or two, then shoot them?

What do you want really? Do you really think spending upwards of a million dollars on a patient is cost effective for the whole? With a million dollars, you create a full blown health prevention program that will PROLONG many more lives than treating a single patient, who will inevitably die younger anyway because treatment in the health system will lead to other complications. For example, the longer your stay at a hospital, the more likely you'll get DVT (deep venous thrombosis) and die of clotting complications.

The whole point of health care is improving quality of life rather than length of life. Everyone dies eventually, and it's totally not cost effective to needlessly pour more and more money into a patient that will inevitably die sooner and have a worse quality of life anyway.

I know this sounds messed up, but life isn't fair, and IT IS fair to have a master health care cap. IT IS NOT FAIR FOR A FEW TO CONSUME ALL THE RESOURCES.

[Caliel]

Originally Posted by Simas

Arbiter's link actually says the bill doesnt cover illegal aliens.

Then the commentator turns that around. He seems to be saying the bill shouldnt cover illegal aliens harder. Thus, it does cover illegal aliens.

It's like arguing drugs really are legal because we dont catch everyone that does them.

Its more like we have laws stating people under 21 cannot drink or buy alcohol so people have to show id to prove they are at least 21. And the current bill basically leaves off the show the id part. So while in theory it would not cover any illegal aliens, we all know that without some kind of preventative measures there is nothing to stop it from happening.

[BurnemWizfyre]

Originally Posted by Caliel

Its more like we have laws stating people under 21 cannot drink or buy alcohol so people have to show id to prove they are at least 21. And the current bill basically leaves off the show the id part. So while in theory it would not cover any illegal aliens, we all know that without some kind of preventative measures there is nothing to stop it from happening.

Huh i don't understand, how hard is it to ask for 3 forms of identification or two forms or whatever. I mean fuck the hospital already does that now so they know who to bill, does this bill some how get rid of them trying to verify who you are??

[Veil]

Legally and morally you just can't let an illegal bleed to death on the sidewalk. It's illegal for an undocumented immigrant to get public health care, but that does not prohibit them from receiving care in emergencies. Health care, read life and death situations, is the same as underage drinking? For Christ's sake. Illegals wont be getting the patch, or scheduled prostate exams now or ever.

[Torvon]

Anyone have a link to the full speech? All I can seem to find is the one idiot screaming something at him.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Rep. Wilson shouts, 'You lie' to Obama during speech

South Carolina Democratic Party Chair Carol Fowler took it further, saying Wilson disgraced his home state.

"Once again a South Carolina Republican has embarrassed our state," Fowler's office said in a statement that referred to S.C. Gov. Mark Sanford's extramarital affair.

"Never has any member of Congress shown such disrespect for the president during a speech," Fowler wrote. "One would think that as a member of the military, Joe Wilson would have more respect and patriotism than he displayed tonight. When Congressman Wilson insulted President Obama, he also insulted the American public. Joe Wilson is a poor example of a statesman and an American. He owes an apology to the president and the American people."

This is great on so many levels. As I said before, Obama may fuck up but the alternative is not a option. Not only is he a miscellaneous unknown Southerner but it also shows how low the Republican party has sunk. Just when you thought they could not get lower with Joe The Plumber they manage to take the bar even lower.

[Smocca]

Full speech.

Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

[BurnemWizfyre]

Originally Posted by Veil

Legally and morally you just can't let an illegal bleed to death on the sidewalk. It's illegal for an undocumented immigrant to get public health care, but that does not prohibit them from receiving care in emergencies. Health care, read life and death situations, is the same as underage drinking? For Christ's sake. Illegals wont be getting the patch, or scheduled prostate exams now or ever.

Exactly emergency is an emergency, denying someone the right to live in a life and death moment is just wrong and that does not mean we are giving ill-legal aliens health care it means we aren't pieces of shit and let them die in front of us. It would like you being in Canada (they have free health care) and you are in a automobile accident and them saying "not from Canada, let the guy die!" they wouldn't do it and neither should we.