Health Care

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Arative

White House ready to draft own health care bill, sources say

Its about time Obama takes a leadership role in drafting the bill instead of letting Congress do it.

Hell yeah, its not like laws are to originate in the house anyway.

I look forward to our next truther Health Care Czar.

[Agraza]

As opposed to your party's initiatives which are drafted in the offices big business lobbyists. We might as well do away with congress!

[Knucklehead]

If my memory of basic elementary school social studies knowledge still holds true, anybody can write a bill to give to their congressman and ask it to be submitted before Congress. I presume the President can ask his Representative or Senator to do the same, though I'm sure he enjoys an easier time than Joe on the corner does.

[Arbiter]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Are these triggers anything like the ones in place for Medicare Part D that are never, ever met, but still continue to gouge seniors on their prescription drug costs?

YEAH, THOSE WORKED SO WELL.

Wonderful bi-partisanship by Mrs. Snowe, amirite Arbiter? SHE'S WORKING WITH THEM (to kill their bill).

Of course you wouldn't like it, you want something that robs peter to pay paul no matter what.

[SalaciousTunare]

Has anyone seen Michael Moore's "documentary" Sicko?

I am curious about Britain, France, and Canada's health care systems. If you haven't seen the documentary, you should check it out. Britain for instance, has had the NHS (National Health Service) since the end of World War II. In Britain, doctors are rewarded for successful surgeries but they are equally rewarded for prevention medicine in patients. Successfully stopping a patient from smoking or getting them to lose weight, offers bonuses for the doctor.

One of the numbers Moore showed was that USA is 33rd in infant mortality rates, behind France 12, Great Britain 22, Canada 23, and even Communist Cuba at 28.

Part of what the people of France were saying, was that their government is afraid of the people, rather than the people being afraid of the government. In France, the people actually regularly protest like it was 60's America, when something is wrong or unjust. In America now, it's like we're all alseep or ignorant and we just roll over and change the channel.

I personally think that health insurance for profit is disgusting. How is it any different than calling the fire department and only getting 10 gallons of water to put your house fire out because you can't afford 10,000 gallons. The cut throat business practices of corporate America should have no influence on a doctor's decisions on how to administer care for a patient.

As posted above, health care is like a bookie that won't pay when you "win" (get cancer) which should be flat illegal. If you have health insurance, all decisions for a patient should be made only by the patient and doctor with all charges being anonymous to the insurer. There were some insiders in that documentary, especially one that worked as hospital administration, and one that worked for an Insurer, that talked about how their main jobs were maximizing profits for companies rather than actually treating patients.

[AladainAF]

The reason I'm opposed to either government run health insurance or government options for health insurance (note: this completely excludes medicare since that is forced and not an option), is that our government is just ineffective at... well.. just about everything.

I'm glad that the UK pays bonuses and shit for doctors. Cool. Our government can't even write $4500 checks to car dealers correctly.

The government has failed at nearly every level and the answer is always "give them more money", or "make a new government department". A lot of people don't want that kind of track record responsible for their health. I'd have no problem with even full government control of health insurance/care if they had a proven track record of efficiency and getting shit done.

In contrast, other governments - such as Cuba (dictatorship), China (Communist) have no problem doing things because its their way or the highway (i.e. China and their "obey the Party" rule). France, and the UK have had much better luck and I think a lot of that was that their plans were made in a time where people were much more civil than today. Its like Medicare here. If we didn't have Medicare today and there was a plan for it, do you really think it would fly?

But even with that said, France and others are having trouble sustaining their system, so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

our government is just ineffective at... well.. just about everything.

Why do you hate our troops?

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

Why do you hate our troops?

You're right. I said "I hate our troops" in my post.

Dumbass.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

You're right. I said "I hate our troops" in my post.

Dumbass.

Are you really that short minded?

I was just pointing out that until late last year, any criticism of the Federal Government by us treasonous liberals was screamed down by members of your political ideology as being "against the troops". I'm sure you personally never did any such thing and it was meant to be mainly sarcastic.



Dumbass.

[dandrools]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

Hell yeah, its not like laws are to originate in the house anyway.

I look forward to our next truther Health Care Czar.

I think you're thinking of this bit of the Constitution:

"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."

Has nothing to do with normal bills, and even then the bill itself can be written by anyone, it just has to be first introduced in and passed by the House.

[AladainAF]

I'm completely aware. No one, even if you're in power, is going to take Obamas bill and pass it without changes. That is what I was getting at.. in the end, its not going to be different than whats happening now.

In fact - Obama SHOULD have laid it all out to begin with.

[whatsamattau]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

In fact - Obama SHOULD have laid it all out to begin with.

The Clinton's tried it that way, and your team ran the exact same plays they are running this time.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

The reason I'm opposed to either government run health insurance or government options for health insurance (note: this completely excludes medicare since that is forced and not an option), is that our government is just ineffective at... well.. just about everything.

Private insurance is just as inefficient. Higher admin costs, higher overhead. Hell it takes doctors sometimes up to 8 months to get paid for simple procedures and visits. It's not like private insurance is some bastion of bureaucratic perfection.

The problem is, the Reaganites pounded in the "government is bad", "government is inefficient" meme into a generation of people and they took it hook, line and sinker.

Get over it. The government does it's job pretty damn well. Most of the time, inefficiencies come from corruption and stupid politicians. And we don't have any corrupt or stupid CEOs do we?

What is so inefficient with the government? The CAR thing? The government is going through claims slower to tamp down on corruption. People will get their money.

[Bralkan]

h

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

If my memory of basic elementary school social studies knowledge still holds true, anybody can write a bill to give to their congressman and ask it to be submitted before Congress. I presume the President can ask his Representative or Senator to do the same, though I'm sure he enjoys an easier time than Joe on the corner does.

Bills have to be sumbitted under the name of a legislator. And all bills are drafted by legal council. Yes, you could give a "bill" to your legislator to submit. They will take it to leg council which will return another version to be submitted.

In Georgia at least, the executive Branch has a floor leader that is seperate from the minority / majority leader. These are basically legislators (state) who serve as avatars for the executive branch. It works similarly in other legislative bodies, but may have a different title. Usually, you only need a separate representative from the majority leader / speaker of the house when the speaker and the head of the executive branch are battling each other.

And ya, its only the budget that has to originate in the house. However, there isn't a state where the executive branch doesn't submit a budget to the house that is then gone through by the appropriations committee.

Otherwise, anything can originate from either body.

[Veil]

Along draegan's line of thinking, we've all heard of the 160 dollar hammers and 80 dollar rolls of toilet paper. Personally i recall hearing those being debunked as gross prices and the like. People love to make grand sweeping comments about how much waste there is in government and how they can't get anything right. But whats the real story behind those claims?

I think most can agree they do a pretty good job in the IRS, as well as 100 other departments? Government is certainly getting their money amiritelol? Government can't be as bad as so many like to claim or there would have been sweeping changes much earlier.