Are Republicans still a National Party?

[Regime]

Originally Posted by Eomer

I can't remember if that was from Collapse or Guns, though.

When 永樂 Zhu Di (Yongle Ming Emperor) organized the treasure fleet in 1405, his main intentions seem to have been spreading the tributary system and showing off his Celestial Kingdom(and finding his brother who fled supposedly to southern Siam which is present day Malaysia). China put forth a fleet that was unseen until World War 1 and made seven astonishing voyages under the command of 鄭和 Zheng He. Several reasons can be attributed to why China closed itself off but the main points are the northern invasions from the regions of Mongolia and Northwest China now known as the province Xinjiang. It was simply beyond comprehension that the barbaric Europeans would ever be a threat from the sea. This matter coupled with the fact that the vast building enterprises undergone by Zhu Di greatly depleted the vast wealth he inherited from his father.

These three vast enterprises were the 1)building of the Grand Canal from Yangzhou to Beijing, 2) extension of the Great wall, 3) and the building of Forbidden City. These endeavors helped solidify the opposition of Confucian scholars who were already opposed to the court Eunuchs who supported open trade and sea exploration. Ironically these same inner-court Eunuchs and Confucians would help lead to a outdated and corrupt system found in the last days of the Qing seen in the epitome of Empress Dowagar Cixi (however the blame hardly lies at her feet).

After Zheng He died in 1433, Xuande Emperor under pressure from the court's conservative Confucians sealed China off. Over 50 baochaun's (Treasure Ships) were sank in the Yang Zi off the port of Nanjing. The Qing followed the Ming's isolationist attitude and made no effort to build a empire. After Emperor Qianlong turned down McCarthy's British envoy in 1793, the time bomb began to tick for the showdown between the West and China. This of course took place in the well orchestrated First Opium War of 1839 when the Red Devils (British forces) systematically altered China's course from a superpower to the West/Japanese's bitch. After England's Treaty of Nanjing was signed it opened the door for USA and France to make their own concessions and the rest is history.

For further reading on the subject I recommend a book by my old professor Dr. Henry Tsai(Cai) entitled Perpetual Happiness: The Ming Emperor Yongle

Picture of one Zheng He's baochuan:


p.s. Hoped that helped and pardon any grammatical errors.

[Aedosen]

Originally Posted by Eomer

But still largely ruled by a central emperor or ruling class that made decisions for the whole country/region. He specifically talks about how China up till the 15th century was one of the most advanced and wealthy societies and was trading all over the world, but then the emperor at the time made the decision basically to become a hermit kingdom, and it led to China's stagnation for the next several centuries while the countries of Europe became the pre-eminent global powers.

I can't remember if that was from Collapse or Guns, though.

That was in Guns and yeah that decision had a huge effect on how we see the world today. Had China started to really exploit it's seafaring power, instead of doing what they did, e.g. it could have very well been a Chinese fleet who first discovered the Americas.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Aedosen

That was in Guns and yeah that decision had a huge effect on how we see the world today. Had China started to really exploit it's seafaring power, instead of doing what they did, e.g. it could have very well been a Chinese fleet who first discovered the Americas.

Depending on who you talk to, it WAS a Chinese fleet that discovered the Americas. They just didn't do anything else about it.

There were some ancient Yongle envoy badges found somewhere in America in a Native American reserve a while ago.

[Etoille]

Wonkette : Nobody Wants To Work At RNC Anymore

[chaos]

I thought Steele was a good pick before he actually got the job. I don't even know now, he is just so ridiculous as to not be believed. Every time I see him talk all I can think is "What a fucking asshole...".

[Smocca]

Steele is a douche, no doubt, but I can't help but feel a bit of pity for him. I don't think there is a single individual in the world who could satisfy that position in the republican party right now. The needs of the position are just far too contradictory. To satisfy the base, you need someone who can speak wacko-talk convincingly. Yet, that person needs to be able to turn on a dime and speak rationally to the other 70% of (at least potential) republican voters. Basically anyone with that job right now is bound to be hated and is potentially throwing their political career away.

What successful, rational and articulate individual would want to do such a thing? (No one) Hence, Michael Steele.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Smocca

Steele is a douche, no doubt, but I can't help but feel a bit of pity for him. I don't think there is a single individual in the world who could satisfy that position in the republican party right now. The needs of the position are just far too contradictory. To satisfy the base, you need someone who can speak wacko-talk convincingly. Yet, that person needs to be able to turn on a dime and speak rationally to the other 70% of (at least potential) republican voters. Basically anyone with that job right now is bound to be hated and is potentially throwing their political career away.

What successful, rational and articulate individual would want to do such a thing? (No one) Hence, Michael Steele.

Therein lies the problem with the Republican party. As the fringe takes more and more control of the party, the Leader of the RNC must be fringe to get their approval. However, any fringe Leader will only be popular in a very small fraction of the country. Therefore, the Republican party has very little hope of recovering from their current situation.

Sarah Palin is the ideal candidate of the fringe. Sarah Palin is unelectable. The Republicans must find someone to stand up to the fringe and not apologize for it. That just is not happening when the Leader of the fringe is a mega star making $400 million/year. Their only hope is if Limbaugh dies. As long as he is alive and kicking the Republican party is doomed and may actually become the new Whig party.

[Etoille]

Actually, this is the best shot the country has at being a multiparty state.

If the republicans would stop worrying about 2012 and had the balls to fracture the party - the fringe could be the crazy right wing end of the spectrum and the moderate republicans could dominate the middle with actual non insane social and credible non hypocritcal economic platforms and probably even steal a few 'blue dogs'.

Might take til 2016 or even 2020 but hey sometimes the short terms shitty to acheive a long term goal.

[Sharmai]

I'm not so sure that, that shot at a multiparty state is gone. I might say that its inevitable.

You have 3 basic sides right now and their separation seems a permanent one. You have the fanatical often religious right who are completely against abortion, same sex marriage, stem cell research, evolution, and etc. They have no intention of sacrificing any of these values or working with any other group to find common grind. It's either wrong 100% or not for them.

You have the opposite of the above. Just as fanatical sometimes and completely unwilling to give up exact marriage equality, bible teachings of creation (Scientology too) and more.


The worst people of both these sides are numerous and are entirely willing to destroy their livelihood and future if it only means their values are preserved.Then you have the 3rd group in the middle trying to sacrifice here and sacrifice there to gain a little here and gain a little there.


The fanatics have taken a hold of the republican party and don't look like they are going to compromise. A third party seems inevitable.

[Regime]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Depending on who you talk to, it WAS a Chinese fleet that discovered the Americas. They just didn't do anything else about it.

There were some ancient Yongle envoy badges found somewhere in America in a Native American reserve a while ago.

Unfortunately Gavin Menzies is considered a hack by most historians due to his book1421: The Year China Discovered America. The map he purportedly bought from a dealer has been examined by Chinese and American scholars who both claim the map originated during the Qing period. Sadly his book sells like hotcakes and misinforms readers.Zheng He's maps could have been used by other Chinese navigators helping them possibly reach the Americas by the 1440s'-50's if they stayed the course. They were destroyed by the Ming court making this a impossible endeavor.

Here is a World History Journal article by professor Dr. Robert Finlay that I am sure you will find interesting. (same professor who criticized Needum's Science and Civilization here). I am currently enrolled in his World History reading seminar and I have discussed this article with him. He is largely responsible for helping change the curriculum taught at the collegiate level from Western Civ. to World Civilization due to the PHD candidates failing on their aptitude tests when it came to Asian, Middle Eastern, Latin or African studies. Be easy on my grammer Grobbe!

[deab]

Originally Posted by Frax

They are now talking about including something lke this: * Establish a government mechanism to seize and dismantle large institutions whose failure threatens the nation's financial stability.



Timothy Geithner seeks major financial reform - Los Angeles Times

The video on that won't embed properly, but goddamn geither has one fucked up nose and huge forehead. You'd think with a noggin like that he could figure out how to pay his taxes correctly.

and lol@tristinn chiming in with his usual retard-o-vision of the world.

See that thing you did there, that's called an Ad Hominen (to the man) attack... and when you use it, it tells any one reading that you don't have anything better to back up your argument.

I don't read the forums often enough to know if you always just attack people by things outside of their control (like looks) rather then actually including some well thought out arguments.

[Torvon]

Originally Posted by Etoille

Actually, this is the best shot the country has at being a multiparty state.

If the republicans would stop worrying about 2012 and had the balls to fracture the party - the fringe could be the crazy right wing end of the spectrum and the moderate republicans could dominate the middle with actual non insane social and credible non hypocritcal economic platforms and probably even steal a few 'blue dogs'.

Might take til 2016 or even 2020 but hey sometimes the short terms shitty to acheive a long term goal.

I'm still in awe at this thread. I can't believe people actually think the 2008 election was the end of the Republican party as we know it. How long have you followed politics? Couple months?

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by Torvon

I'm still in awe at this thread. I can't believe people actually think the 2008 election was the end of the Republican party as we know it. How long have you followed politics? Couple months?

Keep thinking Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will lead you to the promised land. I will continue laughing at you.

[Frax]

Originally Posted by deab

See that thing you did there, that's called an Ad Hominen (to the man) attack... and when you use it, it tells any one reading that you don't have anything better to back up your argument.

I don't read the forums often enough to know if you always just attack people by things outside of their control (like looks) rather then actually including some well thought out arguments.

Duh. Sort of like how the left constantly compared bush to a monkey, especially on bastions of left thinking 'geniuses' similar to this board. I always forget the left has double standards.

[Torvon]

Originally Posted by Sunder

Keep thinking Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will lead you to the promised land. I will continue laughing at you.

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