Has Evolution Been Proven to be True ?

[Lumie]

Why do you choose to worship a God that allows so much pain and suffering in the world when he/she/it could stop it at any time?

God lives within us and therefor suffers through all that we suffer and gives us free will to allow us freedom to do as we want. What is a child going to learn if their parents do their home work/projects for them? Sure they'll get an A but they didn't earn it. God is not responsible for the evil and pain and suffering of the world, man is. And sure the ignorant ones will say "well what about the crusades and other such "holy wars". Well just because someone does something in the name of God, does not necessarily mean God was responsible. God is often framed for the work of evil people claiming to do Gods will.

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?" - Matthew 26:52-54

Jesus could have escaped from his impending death at any time he wished and yet did not and suffered and bled for our sake so that we might be saved. He did this to show us that perseverence through the struggles against evil is of the upmost importance and as such, those who do succeed will be granted the reward of a crown of life. This life is not only an experience of infinite wonder but a test of which passing and failing is the difference between being granted immortality or non existence and only the worthy will be chosen as decreed by Jesus during the soon to come judgment.

“Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the road is spacious that leads to destruction, and many people are entering by it. 14How narrow is the gate and how constricted is the road that leads to life, and there aren’t many people who find it!”

But even if God appeared to me in my living room, I wouldnt worship someone that choose to rule the way he does.

You have to understand that God doesn't rule us, he allows us to rule ourselves and thus we alone are responsible for our actions. God is the sole reason for your life and your entire existence and everything is owed to him and he asks for little in return. It has nothing to do with worshipping God but rather it is respect for the gift that has been granted to us.

[Regime]

Originally Posted by Lumie

God lives within us and therefor suffers through all that we suffer and gives us free will to allow us freedom to do as we want. What is a child going to learn if their parents do their home work/projects for them? Sure they'll get an A but they didn't earn it. God is not responsible for the evil and pain and suffering of the world, man is. And sure the ignorant ones will say "well what about the crusades and other such "holy wars". Well just because someone does something in the name of God, does not necessarily mean God was responsible. God is often framed for the work of evil people claiming to do Gods will.



Jesus could have escaped from his impending death at any time he wished and yet did not and suffered and bled for our sake so that we might be saved. He did this to show us that perseverence through the struggles against evil is of the upmost importance and as such, those who do succeed will be granted the reward of a crown of life. This life is not only an experience of infinite wonder but a test of which passing and failing is the difference between being granted immortality or non existence and only the worthy will be chosen as decreed by Jesus during the soon to come judgment.





You have to understand that God doesn't rule us, he allows us to rule ourselves and thus we alone are responsible for our actions. God is the sole reason for your life and your entire existence and everything is owed to him and he asks for little in return. It has nothing to do with worshipping God but rather it is respect for the gift that has been granted to us.

Jim Jones is that you?

[PerritoBites]

Did god create heaven? Or did heaven exist before god? Did god create hell or did it exist before him? Is god all powerful? What is the purpose of following a god? What is god going to do for us? Why is it that god only accepts us if we follows what he says, then says that we have free will? Does a retarded person have free will? Why doesn't god prove to us that he exists? How would that inflict with free will? Why are there so many gods? What god is the real one? How are you supposed to know which one is the real one? Why do religions need priests if god is the leader of the church? Why did god create such a huge universe? Does god really frown upon you when you masturbate? How is believing in god any different than believing in Santa Clause?

If you buy a dog do you just let it do whatever he wants, then when he starts peeing in your carpets and chewing on your slippers, do you deny him entrance to heaven?

[Neferata]

You attempt to explain the existence of complex things by postulating the existence of an even more complex thing. You don't understand why this is unacceptable, but it is.

If you're willing to believe that a god can be infinite, why can't our existence, the reality we live in right now, just be infinite instead? Maybe "we" were just always here. You shouldn't have any problem believing this. I'm not sure why you toss God into the equation at all. Probably because you're dumb.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Lonin

I was actually going to expand on my original post and include the point that science can do the same thing as religion in terms of the pre-universe, but I didn't feel that I had worded it properly. You are definitely mischaracterizing String and M Theory though. The belief that God created the universe is an almost universally held belief among theists, whereas theories describing the "times" before our universe are anything but universally accepted, just the opposite in fact. Many physicists disapprove of the grant money given to research String and M Theories because they believe it is too faith-based. Even the scientists who strongly support and do the actual research on these theories will tell you right off the bat that they have no physical evidence to support their claims, it's extremely theoretical. Trying to equate the "God exists beyond logic" copout with very tentative scientific theories is just simply wrong.

How exactly am I "mischaracterizing" M Theory? What you just posted about some scientists not approving of the research because it's too faith based for them just further proves my point.

[Lumie]

If you're willing to believe that a god can be infinite, why can't our existence, the reality we live in right now, just be infinite instead?

Because it's logically impossible. Like I said, track everything back to where it came from and you eventually and inevitably reach the conclusion of "nothing", which isn't possible. For example, if you came from your mother and your mother came from another mother, eventually you're going to back track to the first woman ever. Where did she come from? Ok so we evolved from apes...back track apes to a single celled organism that formed in the primordial ooze which back tracks to earths creation which back tracks to the big bang and then before the big bang....?

At one point all physical matter had to have come from somewhere and it's impossible for it to have come from nothing since nothing can't ever be anything other than nothing.

MMORPG's are good examples of proof of intelligent creation. Take WoW for instance, it's a massive "world" created by a massive team of programmers and artists. WoW could not have produced itself without intelligent influence and it is indeed a complex world. Our world is infinitely more complex then WoW's and yet you believe it happened by accident or that it just poofed into existence? That's no different then believing WoW created itself which is completely ridiculous. What does make sense however is that an infinitely intelligent being(God) is responsible for the design and creation of the MMORPG we live in, known as life.

DNA is also proof of God's existence as it is a highly complex strand of information which acts like a computer program responsible for the construction of life forms. We know through common sense that computer programs don't program themselves. How then can you consider that DNA programmed itself? You call me stupid but you sure do believe some pretty retarded stuff. Because I'm pretty sure it seems far more logical that God programmed DNA then for it to have programmed itself considering we now have comparative technology that we know for fact to have been influenced by intelligence.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Regime

Jim Jones is that you?

LOL

[Tea on tuesday]

Originally Posted by Lumie

Because it's logically impossible. Like I said, track everything back to where it came from and you eventually and inevitably reach the conclusion of "nothing", which isn't possible. For example, if you came from your mother and your mother came from another mother, eventually you're going to back track to the first woman ever. Where did she come from? Ok so we evolved from apes...back track apes to a single celled organism that formed in the primordial ooze which back tracks to earths creation which back tracks to the big bang and then before the big bang....

There's nothing logically impossible about an infinite regress. Lay down a semi formal proof and I'll shoot it down. You don't like the idea for the same reason no one likes the idea: because it's uncomfortable.

[Heylel Teomim]

Originally Posted by Lumie

DNA is also proof of God's existence as it is a highly complex strand of information which acts like a computer program responsible for the construction of life forms. We know through common sense that computer programs don't program themselves. How then can you consider that DNA programmed itself? You call me stupid but you sure do believe some pretty retarded stuff. Because I'm pretty sure it seems far more logical that God programmed DNA then for it to have programmed itself considering we now have comparative technology that we know for fact to have been influenced by intelligence.

You've never looked at anything under a microscope, or bothered to learn about the complex non-living processes of the universe have you? Complexity is not predicated on intelligent design.

A few posts up you said something about man having to "earn" his way into Heaven, and that if God made everything happy and great all the time then he would be cheating us out of that chance. Well, in your world God is the prime mover, so God is also the one who decrees that "earning it" is a requirement of everlasting life. Since he set up the rules such that so many will burn for eternity, he has no only indirectly created Hell, but populated it. After all, it's the only game in town. You either play ball, or you burn.

There's simply no way to logically frame a benevolent, omnipresent diety under the assumption that some men go to glory, and others burn for eternity. I can't get behind that. It always, always leads to failures in logic and hypocrisy that cannot be avoided.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Heylel Teomim

There's simply no way to logically frame a benevolent, omnipresent diety under the assumption that some men go to glory, and others burn for eternity. I can't get behind that. It always, always leads to failures in logic and hypocrisy that cannot be avoided.

The ultimate tragedy - Man trying to understand God.

[fat12]

Now I think Lumie is a wackjob just like everyone else does, but why do you compare his faith in Christianity as comparable to Jim Jones? That's just retarded.

[Heylel Teomim]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

The ultimate tragedy - Man trying to understand God.

Which is really just man trying to understand other men.

[nu_11]

Originally Posted by fat12

Now I think Lumie is a wackjob just like everyone else does, but why do you compare his faith in Christianity as comparable to Jim Jones? That's just retarded.

Retarded is what these threads are here for! Sir!

[Caliane]

Originally Posted by Lumie

Because it's logically impossible. Like I said, track everything back to where it came from and you eventually and inevitably reach the conclusion of "nothing", which isn't possible. For example, if you came from your mother and your mother came from another mother, eventually you're going to back track to the first woman ever. Where did she come from? Ok so we evolved from apes...back track apes to a single celled organism that formed in the primordial ooze which back tracks to earths creation which back tracks to the big bang and then before the big bang....?

At one point all physical matter had to have come from somewhere and it's impossible for it to have come from nothing since nothing can't ever be anything other than nothing.

MMORPG's are good examples of proof of intelligent creation. Take WoW for instance, it's a massive "world" created by a massive team of programmers and artists. WoW could not have produced itself without intelligent influence and it is indeed a complex world. Our world is infinitely more complex then WoW's and yet you believe it happened by accident or that it just poofed into existence? That's no different then believing WoW created itself which is completely ridiculous. What does make sense however is that an infinitely intelligent being(God) is responsible for the design and creation of the MMORPG we live in, known as life.

DNA is also proof of God's existence as it is a highly complex strand of information which acts like a computer program responsible for the construction of life forms. We know through common sense that computer programs don't program themselves. How then can you consider that DNA programmed itself? You call me stupid but you sure do believe some pretty retarded stuff. Because I'm pretty sure it seems far more logical that God programmed DNA then for it to have programmed itself considering we now have comparative technology that we know for fact to have been influenced by intelligence.

You are thinking 3 dimensionally. The universe exists on more planes then x,y,and z.
To ask, what existed before the big bang, ignores that time is a quotent of 4 dimensional space, and assumes time is linear, and even existed prior to the big bang. Just because we operate across time linearly, doesn't mean time does.


And if DNA proves the existence of god, then explain viruses. Is God just a douchebag? Rogue RNA that's sole purpose is to replicate and kill life.

[psu199]

The most important gift that God gave human beings is the gift of Free Will. Free will to choose how to live your life how you want, to make the decisions that you want, to screw up however you want. If god were to do anything, it would directly infringe on our free will.

I always took issue to this concept. Isn't god supposed to be omniscient? Does this power not extend to future happenings? If it doesn't, kick omniscience out the window, if it does, then this whole free will is bullshit because he must have known what was going to happen when he set things in motion. He must have known that our free will would lead to horrible choices and death and war and all that shit. Right?

So, given that...he's either: not omniscient, not all powerful, or not benevolent.