Help with Business School, Careers in Finance, etc.

[prescient63]

I'm not really worried about doing poorly on the GMAT but I feel like i have to score at least a 740 because I really can't let my sister beat me. That would be sad =(

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Prime

Also is it generally harder to get into a top school without an undergrad in business?

At least 80% of my class was made of engineers and scientists with no undergrad business degrees. Some of them had graduate degrees in other sciences and in engineering. One of my And the reason why they were there is that they wanted to take on business roles, or other assignments , or they realized they needed some type of training, or they were told they weren't going to progress any further without an MBA.

From an admissions standpoint, Deans are very cautious about letting in science and engineering people. They don't want degree collectors, they want future entrepeneurs, Senior Managers, VP's, CFO's and CEO's. The guy that interviewed before me, the Dean remarked he'd never let into the school, because he felt the guy would never make a good businessperson. The dean felt the guy was just there to get a checkmark, and wasn't there to learn.

I also think that any science or engineering people need to ask themselves if an MBA fits their future career goals. Many of them didn't have to deal with people in their day jobs, and they struggled to do well in anything involving people (like managment or marketing). A few examples of this was a marketing paper that we let an engineer be the point person. The end result of the paper was so screwed up, that we had to yank it back. It was just a data dump, with very little in terms of qualitative analysis. It was a failing grade waiting to happen, and we had to rewrite it. And you would hear engineers praying to just get a passing score in management and leadership classes.

After graduation, many of the science and engineerning people did move into either pure business roles that were heavy quant wise (the #1 thing they went into was financial analyst, followed by maybe consulting) and the #2 thing they did was to be in roles that had a blend of engineering/business duties.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Millie

Originally I was thinking about investment banking -- but then the financial crisis sort of made that decision for me. So that was out. Now I'm debating between consulting, which I kind of think I'll hate, and maybe marketing or brand management and/or general management at a game company. Would love to find a way to integrate my gaming interests with my business background, but I really have no idea how valuable or how valued MBAs are in that sector. If anyone out there knows, please feel free to chime in!

Towards the end of the program in recruiting season, I interviewed or conversed with three companies (one gaming and two MMO companies), and they all wanted MBA's and years of gaming industry experience. One of them was Microsoft (for XBOX Live), and they were very blunt that they had so many applicants, that unless you had industry experience, forget it. Microsoft actually does a ton of recruiting at McCombs because of the high percentage of tech firms in Austin. When they had an open forum, Microsoft said, "OK, we are now accepting resumes for everything BUT GAMING." I guess they get deluged by resumes. Who doesn't want to combine gaming and work?

It seems like most brand mangement/Director of Management/Video Game Product Manager positions require:

MBA preferred - CHECK
good work experience - CHECK
sales and marketing experience - CHECK
video game or MMO industry experience - NOPE

So I am a bit bitter at some of the devs on these boards, but some of that comes from not being able to get a spot. At least I have interviewed with them and some of their VP's. Some of them we spent alot of time communicating, but in the end, it seems as if industry experience > all. So much for bringing in new ideas and innovations from other industries. Someone else might have a different experience, but I don't think having a manufacturing background helped.

Some of the positions I interviewed for were for some of the MMO's that are still in development, and to me, they were exciting. I would have had a ton of fun, I know it From what some of my classmates say, they have more power over design than the devs do.

[Desx]

Just had an accounting exam.. I was owning it until the statement of cash flows =[

[Gilgamel]

I'm working on my bachelor's in accounting. I was planning to double major in finance, but at this point I'm thinking I might be better off skipping the finance part and just completing my CPA as quickly as possible.

My problem is I've spent a number of years playing poker for money, so I'm going to be a 28-29 year old master of accountancy about to sit for the CPA exam with no job history. Doubt that will look very good on my resume. Oops.

[Morsakin]

First of all, thank you Millie for posting this.

I'm currently a Finance Major at the Bauer College of Business Administration at the University of Houston.

I'm considering taking a double major in either international business, accounting, or entrepreneurship.

I'm just now getting my GPA back on trek. Sitting at about a 2.97 now but I can't express how much Selected Perception fucks with me. When I am interested in something, I destroy it. Completely. I'm not kidding. All of my core classes brought my GPA down, but all of my Business-oriented classes have a B average if not A to A+.

For instance, this semester:taking Statistical Analysis for Business Applications, Marketing, Managerial Accounting, Geology, and International Business. 1st exam scores were 97.69 (class mean of 65, a C), 100, 96, 100, 96, and 100, respectively.

Once I get my GPA up to around a 3.5 (which is doable, just takes time), I'll be planning on getting an internship with either UBS, Merryl Lynch, or Deutsche Bank (both of my parents are entrepreneurs, with various friends/colleagues in the I.T. and Financial Departments); primarily looking to get started in the investment banking industry (on foreign soil, if necessary).

My question is, where should I focus my studies, aside from Finance? I already know I'm going to be investing a great deal of time in each and every one of my Finance classes, and as I see college as nothing more than a big time management course, that puts a strain on the availability of free time with which to acquire RELEVANT information which I'll be using for years to come, rather than the duration of a semester

Accounting is no big deal (B+ in Financial, currently 100 average in managerial). INTB and Entrepreneurship/Economic classes are a joke. Just looking for experience-related answers, or a sympathetic mind for the life of a college student doing nothing but studying

Ugh, 3 a.m. study breaks.

[Morsakin]

Originally Posted by Lyrical

2- Always aim to make A's, and that keeps you from making C's. As tough as it was there, you have to aim for excellence. I think the people that do well at UT have this attitude. The ones that aim for just making a 3.0 are the ones that are in danger of making C's. I only came close to a C once (in statistics) because I was competing with engineers and scientists in a math class LOL.

Couldn't agree with this more. When it comes to classes involving your general major, go for the gold or don't go at all.

Oh, and yes, fuck Statistics. If you don't bust your balls in that class it will rape you with a smile on its face.

[Rhuobhe]

Originally Posted by Desx

Lyrical and Millie, what are your positions / company? Millie your in a MBA program right now?

becoming self employed is definitely the way to go as lyrical mentioned. why make money for others when you can be making the same or more taking the entrepreneurial route. Ive been an MBA for just over a year and I have a different mentality than when I did while I was in the program. although i did not attend a prestigious school like some of you did my goal was to excel in my field with a background in business and climb the ranks or go company to company improving my pay grade and grinding my way into managerial positions. but alas it takes a lot of effort, time and luck to make the amount of money you are happy with and the road towards all this is not under your control the majority of the time. write up a business plan, read some material and start (or acquire) your own business.

[r3probate]

@ Morsakin

I'm kicking myself right now for not taking more math as a Finance undergrad. Load up on some meaty statistics, take Econometrics ( this isn't your daddy's Econ 101 ), or get a grasp on some Linear Algebra. Learn MATLAB or C++, if you're interested in quantitative finance. Since MBAs are geared toward people with several years of work experience, and I'm an impatient motherfucker, I'm looking at Masters in Finance / Financial Engineering / etc programs as a one year stepping stone before an MBA or a PhD in the more distant future. My favorite classes in undergrad were the two I took on derivative securities, and many MSF programs are geared to this end.

Sort of a tangent, I know, but my point is more math will make you better, unless you're just interested in being an insurance salesman or stockbroker, or something.

[prescient63]

Not to burst your bubble but if you want to work in quantitative finance you might as well just get a phd in math, stats, or physics because that tends to be what they are looking for. In fact I'll go so far as to say that some highly quantitative hedge funds rarely hire out of any other domains but those i listed.

Edit: I can't spell when im drunk =(

[Millie]

Really depends on the hedge fund, from what I hear. Quant funds, yeah, you'll want to be a PhD. Non-quant funds, however, you can certainly get into with an MBA if you put in your time at an i-bank. Though that's going to be easier said than done now, thanks to the fact that i-banks don't really exist anymore / aren't hiring right now.

[r3probate]

Originally Posted by prescient63

Not to burst your bubble but if you want to work in quantitative finance you might as well just get a phd in math, stats, or physics because that tends to be what they are looking for. In fact I'll go so far as to say that some highly quantitative hedge funds rarely hire out of any other domains but those i listed.

Edit: I can't spell when im drunk =(

Yeah I understand this - but I'm trying to work with what I have. I can't just pull a PhD in math or stats out of my ass without some kind of graduate degree - the MSF is probably my best path on moving toward those ends without re-doing my undergrad as a math or stats major. I'm not expecting to just snap my fingers and get into work at a quantitative hedge fund the second I get a graduate degree.

[prescient63]

Random question, but for those who already applied and were accepted to a top tier grad school how did you go about getting your letter of recommendation from your boss? Did you just write the letter yourself and have them sign it or did you have your boss actually write the letter? Did you give them talking points or just let them say whatever they wanted to?

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by prescient63

Random question, but for those who already applied and were accepted to a top tier grad school how did you go about getting your letter of recommendation from your boss? Did you just write the letter yourself and have them sign it or did you have your boss actually write the letter? Did you give them talking points or just let them say whatever they wanted to?

I let my boss make his comments. I was a bit nervous about this, given that he was only my boss for a few months, but in the end, I trusted him to make the right decision.

When he got done with the letter, he did give me feedback in areas he wanted me to improve though (which did not make it into the letter).

[Kuriin]

I am actually looking to go into business school for MIS (Management of Information Systems) and am very afraid of the GMAT. The highest math I've done is trigonometry and it's been a few years. I graduated from undergrad with a 3.7, so I figure my GPA is good enough.

How hard is the GMAT? What's the highest level of math that is on there? Actually, the same can be asked for GRE.