Help with Business School, Careers in Finance, etc.

[Picasso]

Originally Posted by FulorianC

Because taking life advice from the person with less internets than Kegkilla is a brilliant decision, we'll all be sure to follow your suggestions.

Because of your claim that internets have any correlation with anything we'll all be sure to ignore you.

[Elerion]

-10, 20 or 30 internets don't mean anything
-200 internets says you're a troll

[Grooverider]

Originally Posted by Dumar

oh fucking please. you people are trying to make mbas sound hard or even important. people get them to further their career; ie, to make more money at a job. if phds provided the same money / for work ratio, the engineers would be getting phds.

this has nothing to do with how easy or hard a program is. mbas are a dime a dozen. they're on every street corner from main street to wall street. the curriculum of all of them is easy. there's nothing hard about fucking marketing management. the hardest it goes is accounting, and even that is cake.

don't play stupid games. just tell the fucking truth. it's easy, but it (used to) make money. i'm not really sure why you would get one now though.

100% agreed.

[FulorianC]

-200 internets means pretty much every single person who actively reads this board has given you a neg.

[Grooverider]

You comment on someone elses internets, but hide your own..?

[Snagglepuss]

lyrical/other people that know about real schools:

710 gmat, but only 77th percentile quant - should I retake?

BBA in finance from University of North Texas, 2.97 GPA. I will have over 3 years of experience as a trader in NYC by the time i apply in the fall. Currently make 90k all-in.

i applied to CBS and Yale SOM last year and didn't even get interviews.

Targeting Stern this year.

Waddya think? Retake GMAT or am I okay?

[r3probate]

From my research and reading I'd have to say what's killing you there is your <3.0 GPA and your less than 3 years of work exp. Not to mention University of North Texas isn't exactly known as an... academic powerhouse? A 710 GMAT is pretty adequate, it's in the middle 75% range of virtually all top end B-Schools, even though your quant score is relatively low.

However your work exp as a trader should prove in some way that you aren't bad with numbers, so I don't think re-testing is going to do a ton for you unless you somehow go from a 710 to a 99th percentile score (760+).

I'd say put more effort into your essays and recommendations, and keep in mind that 3 years work exp is still on the low end for most MBA applicants, particularly those with relatively lower scores and GPAs.

[Picasso]

My advice is fairly linear when dealing with someone who has a < 3.0 gpa in finance

End your life.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by r3probate

From my research and reading I'd have to say what's killing you there is your <3.0 GPA and your less than 3 years of work exp. Not to mention University of North Texas isn't exactly known as an... academic powerhouse? A 710 GMAT is pretty adequate, it's in the middle 75% range of virtually all top end B-Schools, even though your quant score is relatively low.

However your work exp as a trader should prove in some way that you aren't bad with numbers, so I don't think re-testing is going to do a ton for you unless you somehow go from a 710 to a 99th percentile score (760+).

I'd say put more effort into your essays and recommendations, and keep in mind that 3 years work exp is still on the low end for most MBA applicants, particularly those with relatively lower scores and GPAs.

Snagglepuss, given your degree being from North Texas, and GPA, even if you have decent work xp and make decent pay (which they will take into account), you might have to focus on getting into a t2 school. Most deans in a t1 school are going to be worried about whether you can hack it/focused enough. I honestly had about five to seven hours of reading a day, and that was before the casework and papers, and not including the hours in class. Given your school and under 3.0 GPA, unless you made it to VP or CEO level, I imagine its gonna be pretty tough. But then again, that's just opinion. If you want a chance at making a t1 school, you are probably going to need an almost perfect GMAT score. It also helps to call admissions at a good school, and ask an administrator in the know what its going to take to get in, and what your realistic expectations are. I did it, and was told my work xp was great, and undergrad fine, but needed to pull my GMAT up.

[FulorianC]

Originally Posted by Picasso

My advice is fairly linear when dealing with someone who has a < 3.0 gpa in finance

End your life.

As someone who also attends the University of North Texas: if he's taken lots of finance classes with Dr. Jim MacDonald, I can totally understand a 2.9 GPA. Seriously, this dude = holy shit wtf hard.

My advice would be to try for SMU, Texas A&M, UT, or Rice. UNT doesn't get much respect nationally, but it's not poorly regarded in Texas for the business faculty. Yeah, it's an emerging research university, so there's some baggage with that, but the more local top schools are going to be less biased against you. And make no mistake, those schools ARE t1. I know you live in NYC now, but it would be worthwhile to apply to these schools for the greater respect UNT will receive, alongside the MUCH lessened cost of attending (for the entire program, in tuition costs, A&M costs ~25k, NYU or CBS ~100k) and living for those years you're in school. Further, don't think that a degree in Texas will preclude you from Wall Street, there's plenty of Aggies and Longhorns on the street.

Keep in mind, also that the 'average salary' postings from Harvard and Stanford are showing a largely Californian and Boston/NYC job acceptance, with much higher cost of living than Texas, where students take largely Texas-based jobs with smaller cost of living adjustments - a UT degree in NYC will command almost identical salaries as a CBS degree in NYC.

Don't feel like you have to get into the top 5-10 schools in the country (and with a 2.9, you won't). There's some very fine networking and job opportunities at the entirety of the top 30. I was at my interview at Texas A&M last week, and of those students I met, most did their ungrads at great schools like Wharton, Brigham Young, and UT. The girl I was interviewing alongside was a Stanford graduate. Yet one of the other students I met was with a UNT grad.

We put way too much emphasis on getting into the absolute megabestwtfomgbbq MBA, but anything in the top 20 - 30 is entirely appropriate - to get into the top 5, you need an INSANELY good set of credentials, without any extreme weaknesses in any areas. That GPA really will come across as a weakness no matter how good your GMAT or essays.

Your GMAT is fine, but see if you can find something to offset your 2.9 GPA. What did you do in school? Emphasize that in the essays, and letters, to show that the GPA is not reflective of your true ability. Did you lead any student organizations? Were you working 40 hours a week? Dealing with children? Just some thoughts.

[Etoille]

I read somewhere a week or two ago ...cant remember where ......

MBA's are on track to become the next "JD". So many people graduating with them that they're a lousy investment if you have to sink your own money in.

Someone else's money - fine but from a cost/benefit ratio the value is plummeting fairly quickly.

Dumar's a moron but in terms of graduate degrees the only thing that seems to be holding value is a PhD. As law/business school degrees become more and more common (due to more and more schools churning out any person out there), the demand just isn't keeping up. Taking the emotion out of it - much of what is taught in an MBA program IS in fact knowledge which can be gleaned from OJT. There is the math etc but its not like business practices really change radically (except maybe business statutes). Its stuff you already do at work most likely or are on track to do unless youre making a career change. MUCH of the value in an MBA degree is in fact the networking; its fairly light on substantive knowledge. Combine that with a scary increase in supply of MBA grads and the fact of the matter is the value of the degree is waning.

To be totally honest I will never put a dime in of my own money again for a grad degree - and from what I'm seeing out there people who have various certifications (six sigma, oracle, pmp etc) tend to actually pull the better salaries.

*shrug*

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by FulorianC

As someone who also attends the University of North Texas: if he's taken lots of finance classes with Dr. Jim MacDonald, I can totally understand a 2.9 GPA. Seriously, this dude = holy shit wtf hard.

My advice would be to try for SMU, Texas A&M, UT, or Rice. UNT doesn't get much respect nationally, but it's not poorly regarded in Texas for the business faculty. Yeah, it's an emerging research university, so there's some baggage with that, but the more local top schools are going to
be less biased against you. And make no mistake, those schools ARE t1. I know you live in NYC now, but it would be worthwhile to apply to these schools for the greater respect UNT will receive, alongside the MUCH lessened cost of attending (for the entire program, in tuition costs, A&M costs ~25k, NYU or CBS ~100k) and living for those years you're in school. Further, don't think that a degree in Texas will preclude you from Wall Street, there's plenty of Aggies and Longhorns on the street.

Keep in mind, also that the 'average salary' postings from Harvard and Stanford are showing a largely Californian and Boston/NYC job acceptance, with much higher cost of living than Texas, where students take largely Texas-based jobs with smaller cost of living adjustments - a UT degree in NYC will command almost identical salaries as a CBS degree in NYC.

Don't feel like you have to get into the top 5-10 schools in the country (and with a 2.9, you won't). There's some very fine networking and job opportunities at the entirety of the top 30. I was at my interview at Texas A&M last week, and of those students I met, most did their ungrads at great schools like Wharton, Brigham Young, and UT. The girl I was interviewing alongside was a Stanford graduate. Yet one of the other students I met was with a UNT grad.

We put way too much emphasis on getting into the absolute megabestwtfomgbbq MBA, but anything in the top 20 - 30 is entirely appropriate - to get into the top 5, you need an INSANELY good set of credentials, without any extreme weaknesses in any areas. That GPA really will come across as a weakness no matter how good your GMAT or essays.

Your GMAT is fine, but see if you can find something to offset your 2.9 GPA. What did you do in school? Emphasize that in the essays, and letters, to show that the GPA is not reflective of your true ability. Did you lead any student organizations? Were you working 40 hours a week? Dealing with children? Just some thoughts.

realistically (yale?) -- I mean not to be a bitch but I dont see ANY thing that will rehabilitate a 2.9 GPA enough to get past the "we didn't even look at your file" stage. top schools i mean. like i said above theyre getting a shitton of applicants right now. its a buyers market for them.

3 years out of school makes him 26? personally i would think the best piece of advice is to wait out the GMAT reporting period (whatever it is) and retake in a few years.

his work record and time is the only thing that is going to distance that GPA from their consideration. especially considering that schools are really trying to target people who aren't still almost 'fresh out of undergrad'.

[FulorianC]

The last two posts were not made by the same person.

Or did you break your shift key in between posts?

[Dumar]

there is no value in a phd in terms of money / time. it's useless for making money. you would make more money using that time to move into management within your organization. that's why every parrot gets an mba or law degree.

you do phd if you really love what you do or you want to go into academia.

the no upstream swimming is completely correct.

[prescient63]

I didn't think traders needed an MBA. Am I wrong about this?