McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Araysar

So a person with less than 2 years of executive experience (if you dont count being a mayor of a town of 7,500 people and sticking it with a $20,000,000 debt), that has a degree in journalism from Idaho State who used to be a news anchor and a beauty queen is the best person to tackle the energy problem amongst Obama, McCain, Biden and Palin?

Let's drop the partisan politics for the time being and seriously evaluate the previous statement again. Do you really believe that?

Then DON'T believe it. Don't listen to the opinion and hyperbole on EITHER side. Why don't you look at the record, instead. It's easy (and let's face it, FUN) to debate based on the innuendo and between-the-shoulderblades daggerplay that both parties revel in, but you wanna "put the partisanship down for a second" then simply take a look at the facts:

BEFORE she was even in any political office, Sarah Palin had made some kind of freaky mission out of calling out and tackling corruption in government. I don't know if you've been to Alaska (the oil pipeline was maintained by my old employer so I've been there way more than I liked) but the people who actually live there voluntarily are---well---different.

They're like paleo-Americans, some kind of wild-west museum exhibit that escaped into modern life. You hear about how the pioneers on the Oregon trail must've been some kind of homespun supermen, then you meet rural Alaskans and realize that there's a reason how such people marched from sea to shining sea with their lives in a wagon and children in their arms and destroyed whatever opposition happened to be in the way: they fear absolutely nothing.

The fact that Sarah Palin was born to these people (and married a Yupik Eskimo to boot) goes a long explaining why the hell she thought she could get away with what she DID get away with. And she got away with dismantling a decades-old "old-boy" political network from her hometown of Wasilla, to the main Government Energy Commission in the state, all the way to her Governorship.

She started her political career by unseating a corrupt mayor and CUT her salary by 60%, cut property taxes by 40% as she had promised in her campaign.

She was then appointed (by state Republicans) to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission wherein she refused to play by the script that the Republicans who appointed her expected her to play. They may have thought she was just another ditzy beauty queen with more ambition than decency. Or maybe they just thought she understood that that was how the Alaskan public oil regime worked. Either way, they were wrong and what they actually got was the woman who REFUSED to take part in their corruption, resigned in protest, then promptly sued and pursued the corrupt Republicans out of their jobs.

"Oh but Khorum, those were just minor nobody Republicans, they couldn't have harmed her!" Wrong, they were the Alaska RNC Chief Randy Ruedrich and Republican Attorney General Gregg Renkes. But in case you feel like imagining that Palin would escape by switching to the Democrats, she implicated them too.

But the AOGCC was still in the grip of multinational corporate interests (not to name names but it starts with E and ends with xxon-Mobil), Palin decided to Challenge the powerful Republican Governor Frank Murkowski (who had APPOINTED his daughter Lisa Murkowski to replace him in the Senate when he decided he wanted to be governor. I shit you not). She won the governorship in the Republican _PRIMARY_, unseating the patriarch of the most connected political dynasty in the state's history.

"But but Khorum, it's about EXPERIENCE reforming the largest corporate entities in human history, not, um, being pretty." As soon as she took office Sarah Palin enacted some of the most dramatic ethics and regulatory reforms in State and US history. She created a cabinet-level authority whose sole mission is to control greenhouse gas emissions by Alaska's substantial gas industry. Against the loud and obvious protest by some of the most powerful corporate interests the world has EVER seen. She then promoted and signed the Alaska Gas Inducement Act against the wishes of BP (her husband's bosses!) and then allowed contractor bidding to award the contract to a CANADIAN company to save the State's taxpayer dollars. As part of the deal TransCanada would build the gas pipeline from Alaska to the 48 states and develop roads, rail and housing communities for indigenous Alaskans along the way!

Then she sued George Bush for being an asshat and trying to kiss ass with an environmental lobby who somehow missed the fact that the Polar Bear population was in a boom and that their entry as an endangered species would bar Alaska from utilizing its resources for generations to come.

What experience does Barack Hussein Obama have that compares with that, exactly?

[earthfell]

Does anyone still read Khorum's Berlin Wall text posts anymore?

[Eonan]

Originally Posted by earthfell

Does anyone still read Khorum's Berlin Wall text posts anymore?

Yes, and I would hardly call his previous post a "Berlin Wall" of a post.

[Gilgamel]

Just wondering, what do you do for a living Khorum?

Anyway, I am just waiting on her speech this week before I handicap the race. If she knocks everyone's socks off then we're in for a dogfight. If she sucks they can make it look like a pandering pick and she'll end up looking like a lightweight. Anyone know when she speaks?

[Nerion]

I did read it and I looked up several of the things Khorum said too. I'm probably not going to vote but, from an objective viewpoint of who picked the best VP, I think it is clear Mccain came through. Just look at how in this poll he has gone up almost ten points from the Obama vs Mccain II thread!!! lol

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by earthfell

Does anyone still read Khorum's Berlin Wall text posts anymore?

Well, apparently yeah. I could see why you're in favor of terse commentary, though. ANY post enumerating Barack Hussein's Obama's positive contributions to my state, my city and my country would be shorter than a paragraph.

Or wait, maybe YOU have a cache of citations where Obama DIDN'T spend his entire career cavorting with Bill Ayers, Rashid Khalidi, Tony Rezko and Jeremiah Wright. Do share.

[Tyen]

Originally Posted by earthfell

Does anyone still read Khorum's Berlin Wall text posts anymore?

Khorum backs up factual statements by citing his sources. I apologize for your behalf by having the inability to read posts dealing with politics without having to do more reading than what you are accustomed to.

[TheMarauder]

Originally Posted by earthfell

Does anyone still read Khorum's Berlin Wall text posts anymore?

No, because they have bias graffiti all over them from the disgruntled Neo-Con on the other side.

[earthfell]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

Just wondering, what do you do for a living Khorum?

Anyway, I am just waiting on her speech this week before I handicap the race. If she knocks everyone's socks off then we're in for a dogfight. If she sucks they can make it look like a pandering pick and she'll end up looking like a lightweight. Anyone know when she speaks?

She will probably speak after God's Wrath aka Hurricane Gustav attempts to wipe out the Republican party.

[Animale]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Then she sued George Bush for being an asshat and trying to kiss ass with an environmental lobby who somehow missed the fact that the Polar Bear population was in a boom and that their entry as an endangered species would bar Alaska from utilizing its resources for generations to come.

I guess ignoring scientific progress and conclusions is a grand Alaskan Republican way of life. We are considering protecting Polar Bears within our borders because world-wide their population is decreasing. Polar Bears International - Bear Facts Now, just because the population in Alaska is increasing (due to a combination of hunting limitations and - more importantly - the migration of bears to more temperate Alaska as their traditional ice-flow habitat is dramatically shrinking) doesn't mean the population is healthy. In fact, it means just the opposite. Now, will the listing negatively affect Alaskan business interests - of course and that needs to be considered. But obscuring the push-pull of this issue by saying "the bear population is INCREASING!!!!!" is bullshit obfuscation at its best and makes me question the rest of your post.

Of course, you aren't interested in anything outside your little world of the 48 + 2, so what do you care about bears... we don't need 'em anyway am I right?

[Gilgamel]

Originally Posted by Nerion

I did read it and I looked up several of the things Khorum said too. I'm probably not going to vote but, from an objective viewpoint of who picked the best VP, I think it is clear Mccain came through. Just look at how in this poll he has gone up almost ten points from the Obama vs Mccain II thread!!! lol

I agree. I think if she can come off as capable McCain accomplished everything he needed to with the pick. I'm from Tennessee, so I know republicans. I'm on a college campus that is probably 70% republican. Personally I was always a McCain republican(I voted for him in 2000) and never liked the religious/gay marriage/bullshit issues that are so important to so many people I know. This Palin pick made me nervous until I read up on her, but all the dyed in the wool Bush republicans I know absolutely love her. I mean LOVE her. When my dad saw her on TV with the AR-15(I think) he just ate it up. This helps him with the far right, adds a reformer with a pretty compelling story to the ticket, injects some much needed T & A into the campaign, and might even bring over some of the feminists to boot.

This all assumes she can talk and doesn't let Biden make her look foolish. People may not like Biden if he bullies her around, but they won't like the thought of some chick who let that loudmouth cow her being president any better.

[earthfell]

Originally Posted by Tyen

Khorum backs up factual statements by citing his sources.

No, he doesn't. What he does is link his hyperbole to a kernel of subjective material.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by TheMarauder

No, because they have bias graffiti all over them from the disgruntled Neo-Con on the other side.

Bias graffiti'd all over them? You mean how I spent the whole post exposing REPUBLICAN corruption in collusion with the petroleum industry? I suppose there could be bias in that post when I spoke of the Republican Governor who practiced naked nepotism by appointing his daughter as US Senator and how Sarah Palin made it her mission to get those people out of power.

I guess there COULD be a bias there, but how is it neocon? Are Neocons in the business of expelling Old-Boy Republican/Petrodollar relationships from government now? Where's the memo?

Originally Posted by earthfell

No, he doesn't. What he does is link his hyperbole to a kernel of subjective material.

As opposed to YOUR insurmountable pile of corroborating evidence of what exactly?

Oh that's right, NOTHING. I mean, it's cute that it's ALWAYS the liberal twats around here who drop the "AD HOMINEM BOOHOO" defense around here, but the truth is it's always those exact same folks who refute fact with innuendo and deny the truth with the real ad hominem attacks.

I presented the facts about Obama's time as my state senator and what do we get? "BAAAH KHORUM YOU JUST HATE HIM CUZ YOU'RE BLACK"

I presented the facts about the weakness of Obama's macro-socialist policies in Education, Healthcare, Social Security and Housing and what do we get "LOLOL LOOK KHORUM HIGHLIGHTED AND BOLDED AND UNDERLINED THAT POST!!"

Maybe I should just make the Obama defense for you fucks and argue against myself. Since you all seem singularly incapable of framing a reasonable inventory of his ACTUAL positive contributions to this Republic.

[earthfell]

Originally Posted by Animale

I guess ignoring scientific progress and conclusions is a grand Alaskan Republican way of life. We are considering protecting Polar Bears within our borders because world-wide their population is decreasing. Polar Bears International - Bear Facts Now, just because the population in Alaska is increasing (due to a combination of hunting limitations and - more importantly - the migration of bears to more temperate Alaska as their traditional ice-flow habitat is dramatically shrinking) doesn't mean the population is healthy. In fact, it means just the opposite. Now, will the listing negatively affect Alaskan business interests - of course and that needs to be considered. But obscuring the push-pull of this issue by saying "the bear population is INCREASING!!!!!" is bullshit obfuscation at its best and makes me question the rest of your post.

Of course, you aren't interested in anything outside your little world of the 48 + 2, so what do you care about bears... we don't need 'em anyway am I right?

WOAH WOAH WOAH.....what IS this? Are you actually using critical thinking combined with scientific reasoning? Khorum won't like this one bit....

[Araysar]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Don't believe it. Don't listen to the opinion and hyperbole on EITHER side. Why don't you look at the record, instead. It's easy (and let's face it, FUN) to debate based on the innuendo and between-the-shoulderblades daggerplay that both parties revel in, but you wanna "put the partisanship down for a second" then simply take a look at the facts:

What part of my statement is not to believed? Which fact is wrong?

BEFORE she was even in any political office, Sarah Palin had made some kind of freaky mission out of calling out and tackling corruption in government. I don't know if you've been to Alaska (the oil pipeline was maintained by my old employer so I've been there way more than I liked) but the people who actually live there voluntarily are---well---different.

They're like paleo-Americans, some kind of wild-west museum exhibit that escaped into modern life. You hear about how the pioneers on the Oregon trail must've been some kind of homespun supermen, then you meet rural Alaskans and realize that there's a reason how such people marched from sea to shining sea with their lives in a wagon and children in their arms and destroyed whatever opposition happened to be in the way: they fear absolutely nothing.

The fact that Sarah Palin was born to these people (and married a Yupik Eskimo to boot) goes a long explaining why the hell she thought she could get away with what she DID get away with. And she got away with dismantling a decades-old "old-boy" political network from her hometown of Wasilla, to the main Government Energy Commission in the state, all the way to her Governorship.

She started her political career by unseating a corrupt mayor and CUT her salary by 60%, cut property taxes by 40% as she had promised in her campaign.

She was then appointed (by state Republicans) to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission wherein she refused to play by the script that the Republicans who appointed her expected her to play. They may have thought she was just another ditzy beauty queen with more ambition than decency. Or maybe they just thought she understood that that was how the Alaskan public oil regime worked. Either way, they were wrong and what they actually got was the woman who REFUSED to take part in their corruption, resigned in protest, then promptly sued and pursued the corrupt Republicans out of their jobs.

"Oh but Khorum, those were just minor nobody Republicans, they couldn't have harmed her!" Wrong, they were the Alaska RNC Chief Randy Ruedrich and Republican Attorney General Gregg Renkes. But in case you feel like imagining that Palin would escape by switching to the Democrats, she implicated them too.

But the AOGCC was still in the grip of multinational corporate interests (not to name names but it starts with E and ends with xxon-Mobil), Palin decided to Challenge the powerful Republican Governor Frank Murkowski (who had APPOINTED his daughter Lisa Murkowski to replace him in the Senate when he decided he wanted to be governor. I shit you not). She won the governorship in the Republican _PRIMARY_, unseating the patriarch of the most connected political dynasty in the state's history.

"But but Khorum, it's about EXPERIENCE reforming the largest corporate entities in human history, not, um, being pretty." As soon as she took office Sarah Palin enacted some of the most dramatic ethics and regulatory reforms in State and US history. She created a cabinet-level authority whose sole mission is to control greenhouse gas emissions by Alaska's substantial gas industry. Against the loud and obvious protest by some of the most powerful corporate interests the world has EVER seen. She then promoted and signed the Alaska Gas Inducement Act against the wishes of BP (her husband's bosses!) and then allowed contractor bidding to award the contract to a CANADIAN company to save the State's taxpayer dollars. As part of the deal TransCanada would build the gas pipeline from Alaska to the 48 states and develop roads, rail and housing communities for indigenous Alaskans along the way!

Then she sued George Bush for being an asshat and trying to kiss ass with an environmental lobby who somehow missed the fact that the Polar Bear population was in a boom and that their entry as an endangered species would bar Alaska from utilizing its resources for generations to come.

What experience does Barack Hussein Obama have that compares with that, exactly?

And this has nothing to do with her experience in energy policy.

The woman is a ditz. She doesn't know what the VP does and thinks that the Founding Fathers wrote the pledge of allegiance.

This isn't partisan politics. These are unvarnished facts.

More broadly on top of that, what kind of cromagnon would still want a Republican in this day and age?

These people are intellectually and morally bankrupt.

They claim to be compassionate and thump the bible all the time while they take any chance they can to stomp all over the poor and downtrodden.

These people whine all the time about sanctity of life while they spend tens of billions of dollars to rain bombs on people.

These people pay lip service to science while pushing forth Creationism and 6,000 year old Earth theories.

They claim to be a party of fiscal responsibility and every GOP president since Nixon increased the deficit.

What kind of moron do you have to keep voting for GOP? Democrats are not perfect but at least they are not intentionally malicious like Republicans.