McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[Arbitrary]

She believes Jesus is coming back in her lifetime and that the Earth is only a few thousand years old. We know she tried to ban books in her town and we know she is against abortion even in the case of rape or incest. We've got her on record. Similarly radical statements from Obama do not exist regarding his faith.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by XadionDarkborn

Alot, take a job at a community college, state university or even an elitetist univeristy like harvard etc etc- any job just get somewhat in the door and keep your eyes and ears open...you will see.

The problem is people are 'omg not creationism!' Yet they ignore the fact that there is more preaching going on in most 1st level classes than there is any given sunday at your local southern baptist convention church- the thing is its just not 'god' thus it is okay. And graduate work is usualy the profs forming you into beliveing and thinking the way they do- or you fail-- and yes they can do that because once you get that high it is no much set curriculum but just whatever the heck the Dr of whatever wants to preach to you.

I teach college and hear what you say being said everywhere except from people actually on the campus or people who actually attend the schools. Every single person in my family has either a Masters degrees or Doctorate in the entire spectrum of fields and not once has this idea of 'graduate work=professor preaching' ever panned out. Once. Teachers teach stuff, it is their job to share information with students. This is a far far far FAR cry from a preacher giving sermon or homily and the fact that you even thought to compare the two makes me think you are not as involved with higher education as you would like me to believe.

Originally Posted by Frax

I also don't believe in creationism, but thanks for playing Sharmai and Screamfeeder. I'm quite atheist, tyvm. Religion is one of the worst things ever created by man and inflicted upon his fellow man.

So explain to me again why you are defending Sarah Palin? You obviously think her and Biden are EXACTLY qualified to the same 100% standard and thus you must be basing your defense of her on some other vague standard you have yet to clarify. Do you just think she is hot like kegkilla does and anything that gives you a boner is reason enough or is there some other secret metric you are not sharing with us and you just like to play this prancing pony game of "I'm going to vehemently defend my choice but never tell you why because you're dumb"?

You are the one throwing out shit about the Founding Fathers being creationists (which you are wrong about but whatever) so don't play this coy "tee-hee I'm an atheist" line with me. If that's the case then all you are doing is making a list of things and people that do something that might be the same as another person and not actually showing why this is a positive or negative. From what I have read so far you support John McCain and Sarah Palin for _______ because ________ and we are all dumb. Fuck Obama!

[Sinter1]

Originally Posted by Frax

You idiots can't follow along, so I'll spell it out for you. The fact that all of you are upset and throwing monkey shit because Governor Palin believes in creationism (which was/is taught in her chuch) and might be president is more relevant than Senator Obama being taught hateful racist and very non-christian things in his church and is actually running for the top job is, nothing short of a double standard. How hard is that to understand? I can't believe a father would actually take his children to that church, much less stand there himself.

Also the JFK quote was to show why the democrats of today are certainly not the democrats of 1960. JFK would laugh at the politics of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and Barack Obama (and probably at McCain and Palin too). Today the left is a rainbow coalition of stupidity and the right is older and richer and some are pretty dumb too.

The right at least holds some values that Americans should work hard and create your own opportunities instead of having the middle class pay for the lower classes bootstraps, or whatever the fuck Obama said in his speech. The left wants a free lunch, the right wants you to actually work for you lunch. It's a fundamental difference that means all the world to the working person in this country. Some of us have actually come from being poor to middle-class/wealthy, and no one gave us a damn thing along the way other than a chance to succeed. If you can't succeed in America right now, you aren't trying hard enough.

We've already covered the qualifications: Be 35, be a natural born US citizen, resident for last 14 yeras, and not been president for two terms previously. There is no other qualification other than winning the electoral vote.

I also don't believe in creationism, but thanks for playing Sharmai and Screamfeeder. I'm quite atheist, tyvm. Religion is one of the worst things ever created by man and inflicted upon his fellow man.

Everything except your last two paragraphs is such utter nonsense it's amazing. At least Khorum is entertaining. Granted I'm not a fan of Reverend Wright, however you can definitely hear worse from any bible belt preacher or Palin's church I am sure. Members of the KKK are generally religious as well, what does that say? Ultimately I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Palin believing in creationism is a bit different than Obama attending sermon with Rev. Wright. Obama hasn't at least publically endorsed much of what Wright has said.

As much as us "leftists" love JFK he wasn't clean of some questionable shit himself. The Bay of Pigs, and the fact he was fully aware of Saddam Hussein being a CIA operative as early as 1959 and knowing he was part of an attempt to assassinate Iraq's General leader, succeeding in 1963.

And now to the basis of your argument classifying America as "right" and "left" and stating the right has values and they want you to work for your money, meanwhile the left is all a bunch of freeloading hippies. That's been the bullshit being touted for the longest time now and if you buy into it you simply fail at Politics 101. Bush wants to literally hand out $700 billion dollars to his buddies on Wall Street. Seems quite "left" to me. Not to mention putting this country into record amounts of debt. But I thought the "left" spent money. What about McCain's campaign advisor getting $15k a month from Freddie Mac... seems like a handout to me, much worse than Pelosi's flowers.

Labels in politics are like fucking religion. It doesn't do anything but further divide people.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by Frax

The right at least holds some values that Americans should work hard and create your own opportunities instead of having the middle class pay for the lower classes bootstraps, or whatever the fuck Obama said in his speech. The left wants a free lunch, the right wants you to actually work for you lunch. It's a fundamental difference that means all the world to the working person in this country. Some of us have actually come from being poor to middle-class/wealthy, and no one gave us a damn thing along the way other than a chance to succeed. If you can't succeed in America right now, you aren't trying hard enough.

Bzzzzzzt. Wrong answer. The right has their own form of welfare. It's called CORPORATE WELFARE. If you're a multi-millionare and your company fails, don't worry, the Repubs will bail your ass out. You won't lose your fortune or your cushy retirement package. You'll be just fine, even if your business model resembles the drunken ramblings of senile old man running for President.

That being said, I think you are just trolling at this point. After the last 8 years of "conservative" control of the White House and seeing what happens, you can't possibly be stupid enough to actually believe what you are typing. So I'll go with you are just another in a long line of neocon trolls.

[Smocca]

Um Frax is obviously either trolling you guys or is the perfect amount of stupid to troll you accidentally. "The left wants everyone to have a free lunch!!" is right-wing-crazy-person-trolling-101.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

I teach college and hear what you say being said everywhere except from people actually on the campus or people who actually attend the schools. Every single person in my family has either a Masters degrees or Doctorate in the entire spectrum of fields and not once has this idea of 'graduate work=professor preaching' ever panned out. Once. Teachers teach stuff, it is their job to share information with students. This is a far far far FAR cry from a preacher giving sermon or homily and the fact that you even thought to compare the two makes me think you are not as involved with higher education as you would like me to believe.

His point was that they preach their information, not religion. As in. You write down what the teacher says is right, and you get good grades. Which is true. Sadly.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Zerai

His point was that they preach their information, not religion. As in. You write down what the teacher says is right, and you get good grades. Which is true. Sadly.

The fuck it is. If you write something down, ANYTHING and just flat out assume it's right then you should not even be in fucking school. The entire purpose of higher education is not to create legions of fact spewing drones, it's to encourage critical thought. Taking your education at face value and not thinking is what high school is for.

If a professor says something that you think is incorrect, investigate and if it turns out you are actually correct, I have yet to meet the college level professor that will knock you down for it or fail you or whatever else happens in movies. There is always recourse for the pro-active student, always.

His point was the same tired line of "liberal professors indoctrinate students with lies".

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Zerai

His point was that they preach their information, not religion. As in. You write down what the teacher says is right, and you get good grades. Which is true. Sadly.

This only works until your asked to do more then memorization. I.E. When it's not math.

Your statment reminded me of this gem... It's not known if it is untrue or not..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

[Collected on the Internet, 1999]

The following concerns a question in a physics degree exam at the University of Copenhagen:

"Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with a barometer."

One student replied:

"You tie a long piece of string to the neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of the barometer will equal the height of the building."

This highly original answer so incensed the examiner that the student was failed immediately. The student appealed on the grounds that his answer was indisputably correct, and the university appointed an independent arbiter to decide the case.

The arbiter judged that the answer was indeed correct, but did not display any noticeable knowledge of physics. To resolve the problem it was decided to call the student in and allow him six minutes in which to provide a verbal answer that showed at least a minimal familiarity with the basic principles of physics.

For five minutes the student sat in silence, forehead creased in thought. The arbiter reminded him that time was running out, to which the student replied that he had several extremely relevant answers, but couldn't make up his mind which to use. On being advised to hurry up the student replied as follows:

"Firstly, you could take the barometer up to the roof of the skyscraper, drop it over the edge, and measure the time it takes to reach the ground. The height of the building can then be worked out from the formula H = 0.5g x t squared. But bad luck on the barometer."

"Or if the sun is shining you could measure the height of the barometer, then set it on end and measure the length of its shadow. Then you measure the length of the skyscraper's shadow, and thereafter it is a simple matter of proportional arithmetic to work out the height of the skyscraper."

"But if you wanted to be highly scientific about it, you could tie a short piece of string to the barometer and swing it like a pendulum, first at ground level and then on the roof of the skyscraper. The height is worked out by the difference in the gravitational restoring force T =2 pi sqr root (l /g)."

"Or if the skyscraper has an outside emergency staircase, it would be easier to walk up it and mark off the height of the skyscraper in barometer lengths, then add them up."

"If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in millibars into feet to give the height of the building."

"But since we are constantly being exhorted to exercise independence of mind and apply scientific methods, undoubtedly the best way would be to knock on the janitor's door and say to him 'If you would like a nice new barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height of this skyscraper'."

The student was Niels Bohr, the only Dane to win the Nobel Prize for physics.

[Mippo]

You know, I hear all about the FEAR that the republicans have. He has some loose ties so everybody panic because we are the religious right and we use fear as a tool!

You know what I haven't heard a SINGLE commentator say? What they have a fear of. Not a single one. It's always a generic, we are scared. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SCARED OF?

Let's get specific, what do you think Obama would do in his presidency that would scare you? Heck, if the guy is friends with Terrorists like some people are claiming don't you think that would make our country pretty much immune to attack? Do Republicans even think about it? Why would they attack their friends country? Doesn't make sense does it. Wouldn't we be LESS likely to be attacked with a President that is friends with the people that supposedly will be attacking us?

So what exactly is the fear? I hear tons of talk about how scared everyone is, but nobody seems to even know WHAT THE FUCK they are scared of? The boogeyman in the closet?

See, Democrats had REAL fears going into the 2000 Presidential election. We knew what Bush would do to the economy. We KNEW we would end up going to War during a Bush presidency, which we did. Look what happened, those were real fears.

People can also name their fears about McCain and Palin. Let's cut the generic I'm scared bullshit and get down to specifics here. So what exactly is it that you fear will happen if Obama is President? What exactly are you scared of?

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Smocca

Um Frax is obviously either trolling you guys or is the perfect amount of stupid to troll you accidentally. "The left wants everyone to have a free lunch!!" is right-wing-crazy-person-trolling-101.

No he is just a typical Bubba. Unfortunately, there are more Bubbas in the country than regular people. Bubbas electing one of their own, George W. Bush, is the reason we are in this situation. Bubbas electing one of their own is the reason we are in Iraq. Only a Bubba would think that Sarah Palin is qualified to be in charge of anything other than the local Piggly Wigglys.

[XadionDarkborn]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

I teach college and hear what you say being said everywhere except from people actually on the campus or people who actually attend the schools. Every single person in my family has either a Masters degrees or Doctorate in the entire spectrum of fields and not once has this idea of 'graduate work=professor preaching' ever panned out. Once. Teachers teach stuff, it is their job to share information with students. This is a far far far FAR cry from a preacher giving sermon or homily and the fact that you even thought to compare the two makes me think you are not as involved with higher education as you would like me to believe.

As for degrees of what my famialy holds as to what yours hold can be compaired etc etc all day long on the internet, graduate and undergrad here and there vocational etc etc its all over the board with experiances from a to z- brother wife, teaching, adjuncting etc we can quibble over it all we want- I am sure your fam and yourself are well educated - teaching of any level is not easy...and is 90% of the time under compensated and appreceated - and yes I am college educated and cant spell, and am far to lazy to run this post into word and care- so you can bash me on spelling all you wish, I am a lit ed guy- by the grace of God (capital G! lululz more -internets) I skimmed by anything relateing to grammar etc.

But to move forward in the subject of my post- maybe my compairson was not...proper in useing preaching- how about indoctrinating, I think that is better. It can come also in comparison be looked at this way, Lewis' narnia work vs Tolkins middle earth and Christian allegories within them- you can find sources on Lewis that stated he did/did not intend to make them allegories- however (this was the base of a few of my research papers, assignments etc etc) Tolkin did not set out for anything to be allegorical in his work but admits that it /is/ - why? because anyone and everyones beliefs and doctrine will underly and show in their work, writing etc.

So...will this show up in Palin's standings etc- will it show up in Obama's also? Yes...beliefs and personal doctrine are not always or exclusively religious.

I have rambeled off and gone from one point to the other. :-) oh well!

However...not all teachers and educational institutes are trying to 'preach' to their students - some however are, many actualy- one of my fav classes was the Lit History of the holocaust - it was presented and done in such a way no one knew the instructor was Jewish lol- however in the lovely intro to religion class that almost everyone seems to take, we knew our wiccan teacher was such from day one despite her over compensating claims to be 100% objective etc etc and only on the last day saying 'now I will tell you what I subscribe to' - because why? Just like you should never trust a computer tech that says "I can fix it, I know everything!" you should never trust someone to be 100% objective in terms of seeing everything in every pov in every single light of a situation possable...it is not human nature- our personal thoughts etc will always guide- in some way- what we do.

Okay...flame on, I am done for now :-) lol

[Frax]

Originally Posted by Sinter1

Everything except your last two paragraphs is such utter nonsense it's amazing. At least Khorum is entertaining. Granted I'm not a fan of Reverend Wright, however you can definitely hear worse from any bible belt preacher or Palin's church I am sure. Members of the KKK are generally religious as well, what does that say? Ultimately I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Palin believing in creationism is a bit different than Obama attending sermon with Rev. Wright. Obama hasn't at least publically endorsed much of what Wright has said.

As much as us "leftists" love JFK he wasn't clean of some questionable shit himself. The Bay of Pigs, and the fact he was fully aware of Saddam Hussein being a CIA operative as early as 1959 and knowing he was part of an attempt to assassinate Iraq's General leader, succeeding in 1963.

And now to the basis of your argument classifying America as "right" and "left" and stating the right has values and they want you to work for your money, meanwhile the left is all a bunch of freeloading hippies. That's been the bullshit being touted for the longest time now and if you buy into it you simply fail at Politics 101. Bush wants to literally hand out $700 billion dollars to his buddies on Wall Street. Seems quite "left" to me. Not to mention putting this country into record amounts of debt. But I thought the "left" spent money. What about McCain's campaign advisor getting $15k a month from Freddie Mac... seems like a handout to me, much worse than Pelosi's flowers.

Labels in politics are like fucking religion. It doesn't do anything but further divide people.

I don't agree that we should be bailing out freddie mac /fannie mae or AIG at all. Let them fail. We also should not be bailing out failed automakers, airlines, etc with tax money. If they fail someone else with better ideas and business practices will fill the void if there is a demand for that type of product/service.

[Sharmai]

Fear loses its power greatly when you know what it is. Think of the number of scary movies out there where you knew who the bad guy was and everything about him.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Frax

I don't agree that we should be bailing out freddie mac /fannie mae or AIG at all. Let them fail. We also should not be bailing out failed automakers, airlines, etc with tax money. If they fail someone else with better ideas and business practices will fill the void if there is a demand for that type of product/service.

Have you missed the last 10 pages? We have already been over this.

What happens when they fail and 1000's lose their jobs? What happens when millions of people declare bankruptcy? How many more millions of job losses will we see then?

Cascading effect. You can take a small hit now or lose everything later. Pick one.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

This only works until your asked to do more then memorization. I.E. When it's not math.

Your statment reminded me of this gem... It's not known if it is untrue or not..

I went to school for mechanical engineering and a lot of it is memorization. Stupid memorization. As in, you have to memorize the formulas. Which is completely ridiculous. It's not like my $300 textbook vanishes when I need to solve something in the real world. I just need to know where to find it. Or what formula to use.

But I had profs which purposefully banned cheat sheets (formula pages) and did not include formulas on the exam paper.

It's not 'liberal' or 'conservative' it's just the shitty nature of education.

And I attended McMaster University which is ranked as one of the top universities in canada (think it was 90th in the world the last thing I looked at) but I heard similar things from friends who attended other schools. Such as University of Toronto or Waterloo which are arguable the best universities in Canada and comparable to some of the top schools in the US.