McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[Arbitrary]

Ouch, it wouldn't have quite the same sting without being from Planned Parenthood. Makes it a little extra stabby.

[Manseed]

Originally Posted by Araxen

Hahahah I fucking love the shot of the old man sipping a beer and watching the kids get off the school bus.

[Gilgamel]

Uh, the Obama campaign has to figure it out that quotes from planned parenthood or the media calling McCain a doodoohead meanie aren't going to do the job. Most people think planned parenthood wants to meddle with their job as parents and have an even lower opinion of the media. Obama had the gumption to come out today and say they had some pretty tough ads. Typical effete liberal bullshit. If he wants people to know McCain is bullshitting them he's going to have to stand up and call the motherfucker out in no uncertain terms man to man. Letting the media or planned parenthood do it for him isn't going to work.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by Manseed

All logic and fact aside, it is far easier to be swayed to the left in this country.

Is it? The 2004 election begs to differ. Just need to scare 'dem 'dere country folk that the Democrats are going to steal their guns, burn their bibles and gay people getting married will destroy their marriages and they seem to fall in line.

[renaissance]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

Is it? The 2004 election begs to differ. Just need to scare 'dem 'dere country folk that the Democrats are going to steal their guns, burn their bibles and gay people getting married will destroy their marriages and they seem to fall in line.

Don't forget that Islamo-Fascist terrorists will come whip aborted fetuses at sky scrapers.... gets 'em every time.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

Look, Obama is not "qualified" in the traditional sense to be President. You know, I know it, and the American people know it. He's obviously intelligent and I have no doubt he could learn how to do the job, but just because people don't agree with you that he is OMG AWERSOM!!$!!$ doesn't mean they are ignorant. The guy was a senator for TWO years before he started running for president. This tells you the high esteem in which the American public holds the office of senator, and how important McCain's military service and long history in the public eye are to his campaign.

Sorry, but I don't think Obama is less qualified than McCain. Experience in politics is important, but as Khorum will point out, Chicago's politics are some of the most hardcore in the country and Obama seems to have survived them pretty well. I would also think high-level command experience in the military is important, but neither has that.

Leadership, character, ideas, intelligence, wisdom and political acumen are what are important to me in a president.

[Lleauaric~EW]

Why the fuck would anyone release a good tough ad today?

Its Hurricane Ike Day

Not to mention its in bad taste.

[Gilgamel]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

Sorry, but I don't think Obama is less qualified than McCain. Experience in politics is important, but as Khorum will point out, Chicago's politics are some of the most hardcore in the country and Obama seems to have survived them pretty well. I would also think high-level command experience in the military is important, but neither has that.

Leadership, character, ideas, intelligence, wisdom and political acumen are what are important to me in a president.

You don't think he's less qualified than McCain. They don't think he's as qualified as Sarah Palin. It's a personal choice. That's why I said "in the traditional sense." My point is that no matter how much you and IRB think he is qualified to be president there is a significant faction in this country that think's he's a typical politician whose ambition far exceeds his grasp.

Name one political hardship he has overcome. Name one truly combative issue he has taken control of and forged a bipartisan coalition on behalf of. If the guy wasn't a great speaker we wouldn't know his name over any of 85 other people in the senate. Read the Krauthammer article I posted a page or two ago. His entire political arc can be defined by 5 speeches.

[Vandyn]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

You don't think he's less qualified than McCain. They don't think he's as qualified as Sarah Palin. It's a personal choice. That's why I said "in the traditional sense." My point is that no matter how much you and IRB think he is qualified to be president there is a significant faction in this country that think's he's a typical politician whose ambition far exceeds his grasp.

Name one political hardship he has overcome. Name one truly combative issue he has taken control of and forged a bipartisan coalition on behalf of. If the guy wasn't a great speaker we wouldn't know his name over any of 85 other people in the senate. Read the Krauthammer article I posted a page or two ago. His entire political arc can be defined by 5 speeches.

This is the problem I have with Obama. I think he's a great speaker and incredibly intellegent, but what is there behind the speeches? What has he done that makes me believe that he can accomplish what he says he can? If he has leadership, then where has that leadership been proven in the past?

These are not just my questions, but questions for the majority of average voters.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by Vandyn

This is the problem I have with Obama. I think he's a great speaker and incredibly intellegent, but what is there behind the speeches? What has he done that makes me believe that he can accomplish what he says he can? If he has leadership, then where has that leadership been proven in the past?

These are not just my questions, but questions for the majority of average voters.

What does he need? A high IQ and impressive education isn't enough?

Seriously. Bill Clinton said it himself: Nothing can really give you the experience you need to be president.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

Name one political hardship he has overcome. Name one truly combative issue he has taken control of and forged a bipartisan coalition on behalf of.

Can't. But that doesn't bother me.

[JerleMinara]

Oh, just on the "Bush Doctrine" topic, since that seems to have slid away..

Charles Krauthammer, the man who first used the term "Bush Doctrine", wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post that I found rather nice. It was a well-written enunciation of what I attempted to say yesterday about Palin's statements.

Disclaimer: Yes, Krauthammer is a conservative journalist. Doesn't make him less right.

It's a nice brief read: Article

[Smocca]

Good thing we aren't electing Charlie Gibson to be vice president plus president at least 33% of the time.

She is interviewing as the understudy to the most powerful position in our government. She should be educating Gibson on this shit, not asking, "His world view?" (upward inflection). You can even see the disappointment in her face when he quickly responds, "No..."

You can't give people the benefit of the doubt for a job like this when we don't have enough information to go on. Its her job to prove to us that she is capable, not our job to assume she is until proven wrong.

Stop making excuses for her.

[Fammaden]

Jerle, that article is a bunch of fucking bullshit. I see nothing but a rhetorical difference in they way he describes the old Bush doctrine versus the new one. I don't think Obama can change the world and remake America, but are you seriously telling me you think the W. administration actually gives a flying fuck about spreading democracy throughout the world?

[Gilgamel]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

What does he need? A high IQ and impressive education isn't enough?

Seriously. Bill Clinton said it himself: Nothing can really give you the experience you need to be president.

Look, it's like being chairman of the board of a big corporation. You have to choose a new CEO because your previous CEO got caught having a drunken orgy with four twelve year old boys the night before he got arrested for insider trading(good analogy to the Bush years I think). Your stock has taken a huge hit, your shareholders are worried about your future viability, and you have to choose someone new to right the ship and lead your company through this prickly situation. You have two options:

Potential CEO A has a Harvard MBA, is well spoken, and was impressive as all hell in the interview. He has huge plans for your business and, although he has never actually done anything like this before, he believes he has a plan that will take your company to never before seen heights. The problem is he is right out of college, and has almost no real world experience.

Potential CEO B is an old crusty veteran of the trade. His ideas are nothing earth shattering, but you are pretty sure that, if you pick him, he can clean up the corruption and stay away from the 12 year old kids. Maybe you won't see record profits under his leadership, but he'll probably sail you back to calm waters and an open sky where you will feel more secure with a more aggressive and risky pick.

We, the American people, are that chairman of the board. People are less concerned with specific policy matters than they are just putting that trainwreck of a CEO behind us and picking someone they feel more comfortable with moving forward.

Edit: To Fam one of the basic tenets of the Iraq war was to spread democracy and capitalism throughout the Middle East and give young and disgruntled Muslims(terrorists) an option other than fundamentalism. I made this argument repeatedly when the whole WMD controversy was going on, because I remembered specifically hearing people like Rush and Hannity repeatedly hitting the talking points on this when we went in, and I listen to Rush maybe three hours a month and Hannity only when he has an interesting guest on his TV show. People now try to say Iraq was just about WMD or oil, but it actually was part of an almost naively ambitious plan by the White House to do away with most of terrorism in our lifetime. WMD was just a justification. The forceful spread of democracy is one of the pillars of neoconservatism, go look it up. For realz, yo.