McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[Zulutu]

Originally Posted by Melchizedek

Really?!!?

Did our whackos (cuz we do have em) receive (or steal) press passes to get into areas of the DNC convention? Code Pink did.

Did our whackos threaten news agencies? Code pink did.

Grasping at straws are we?

Damn Khorum how many accounts do you have? I love how you forgot to log out of your other account to defend yourself, *bloops* looks like you fucked up son.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Soriak

Report on librarygate. I love the excuse - the question about banning books was rhetorical. I'm not sure they know what a rhetorical question is.

It appears to be a pattern of using her authority in the wrong manner. She is definitely Dick Cheney with lipstick and without his experience and knowledge. Although pointing out that Palin is incompetent does not directly affect McCain, we should note that choosing Palin is not putting his "Country First". Either McCain does not understand how incompetent she is or he is more concerned about winning an election than the country. As President he will make similar appointments like Bush did with Micheal Brown of FEMA.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

What the fuck is Norma Rae talking about now?

Palin Links Iraq to Sept. 11 In Talk to Troops in Alaska

FORT WAINWRIGHT, Alaska, Sept. 11 -- Gov. Sarah Palin linked the war in Iraq with the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, telling an Iraq-bound brigade of soldiers that included her son that they would "defend the innocent from the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans."

The idea that the Iraqi government under Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaeda plan the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, a view once promoted by Bush administration officials, has since been rejected even by the president himself. But it is widely agreed that militants allied with al-Qaeda have taken root in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion.

[Zora]

Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch

What the fuck is Norma Rae talking about now?

Palin Links Iraq to Sept. 11 In Talk to Troops in Alaska

Yeah, someone mentioned this on Morning Joe today. I thought it was something she said in the Gibson interview but now I see it was in her speech sending her son off to Iraq. She is going to single-handedly undermine McCain's campaign at this rate. They will likely clam her up before it gets to that point though.

[TheMarauder]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

including dismantling the Soviet Union

Did you seriously just say Reagan dismantled the Soviet Union? God help you, you clueless idiot.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Zora

Yeah, someone mentioned this on Morning Joe today. I thought it was something she said in the Gibson interview but now I see it was in her speech sending her son off to Iraq. She is going to single-handedly undermine McCain's campaign at this rate. They will likely clam her up before it gets to that point though.

My guess is we will not see anymore of her until after election day. The McCain campaign will keep her out of the media completely. She will be placed behind Cindy as just window dressing.

The McCain handlers must know she is a house of cards and will try to keep the glue together until election day. They will let Cindy talk before they let her talk openly again. Back to Obama bashing on the stump for Palin.

[Dirus]

Originally Posted by Zora

Yeah, someone mentioned this on Morning Joe today. I thought it was something she said in the Gibson interview but now I see it was in her speech sending her son off to Iraq. She is going to single-handedly undermine McCain's campaign at this rate. They will likely clam her up before it gets to that point though.

I think you have too much respect for the American voter. Most people in this country don't vote on the issues. They don't understand them. They watch commercials, fail to read, and decide based on untruth and nonsense.

This is true on both sides of the table.

[TheMarauder]

Originally Posted by Dirus

I think you have too much respect for the American voter. Most people in this country don't vote on the issues. They don't understand them. They watch commercials, fail to read, and decide based on untruth and nonsense.

This is true on both sides of the table.

Truth.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Dirus

I think you have too much respect for the American voter. Most people in this country don't vote on the issues. They don't understand them. They watch commercials, fail to read, and decide based on untruth and nonsense.

This is true on both sides of the table.

No it is not on both sides. The Karl Rove doctrine of winning elections takes advantage of the fact that the American people are stupid. Palin is a prime example of that stupidity. Palin is an impenetrable thicket of memorized McCain campaign talking points.

That plays well in Red states and most likely will win the election for McCain. They will be clinging to their guns and bibles while Rome burns.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Umm, am I the only one who while thinking Palin is a fucking retarded choice for VP, doesn't have a problem with that CNN Youtube bit about NATO/Georgia/Russia?

What the fuck is the point of a military alliance if you won't defend one of the members from aggression? If we are genuinely concerned about war with Russia, then maybe we shouldn't piss in their fucking eye and sign up immediate basket case neighbours to military alliances.

If Georgia is made a member of NATO, and Russia invades, the rest of NATO is obliged to defend it. However given most of the Western European nations' behaviour regarding Afghanistan, I imagine what would happen instead is the collapse of the alliance, while Putin laughs his ass off.

Not sure if this has been answered since I have a few pages to read yet.

If Russia invades another country like Georgia I wouldn't council war immediately. I would council UN sanctions, Economic sanctions, diplomatic measures. Diving head first into a war with Russia is a sure fire way of starting WW3. I think there are better ways to go about it than shooting first asking questions later.

[Horse]

To whomever referred to my "intelligent soldier" comment in the internets, and how I'm dead wrong that we don't want any. Why not have the balls to discuss it?

Last time I checked individualist soldiers were a big no-no in any sort of army. Similar to activist judges, you do not want someone pushing an agenda of their own cognition when they're meant to perform a specific role.

I mean, look at Palin. All of her off-message bullshit was obviously not researched very well and they're backpedaling hard. They needed to push a youthful woman republican that had the appearance of balls to show how modern and connected the party is. Snort. I don't think they could have found anyone less connected with reality than they did.

See, we're talking about the alternate reality where your opinions are secondary to the mission of the organization that you're a part of. So please, point me out to the Free Thinking Division of the military. Or is that the special one where Chuck Norris and MacGuyver share bunk beds?

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Draegan

Not sure if this has been answered since I have a few pages to read yet.

If Russia invades another country like Georgia I wouldn't council war immediately. I would council UN sanctions, Economic sanctions, diplomatic measures. Diving head first into a war with Russia is a sure fire way of starting WW3. I think there are better ways to go about it than shooting first asking questions later.

Wait, are you sure?

Because I saw at the RNC that they mocked Obama for suggesting the UN handles portions of it instead of WE ARE ALL GEORGIANS NOW, and then McCain later says the exact same thing. The saber rattling is nauseating at best.


Big snore there. I can't believe we'd even pretend we have an enemy in the modern CCCP... haha. Modern is being polite. Take 8-Mile Detroit now apply it to an entire country. Yes, they're going to attack us with smouldering washing machines with no doors and pop-up banner ads.

The fuck? I mean at least let the region get any sort of foothold before pretending that they may be a threat in the distant future.


You simply do not offer hypotheticals about nuclear war.

A buddy of mine in St. Petersburg described it like this to me:


"The United States are no more, just - for sake of clarity -4 states: Illinois, Indiana, East and West. This was largely instigated by Canada that is a part of the Democratic International Committee of Capitalism or DICC for short and allied with the rest of the hemisphere.

Imagine if Chicago seceded from Illinois, at the urging and support of Indiana which is the largest DICC foothold in the region. Illinois gets riled up and claims what's 'theirs' back and the East steps in to keep the peace. The East is also sorta pissed off because of the US split in the first place and wants to reunify things."

All the while Canada is spinning and presenting evidence of how the East is terrorizing Illinois! And we can't let the East gain any power, as they are a formidable enemy and threat! Even MORE of a threat now that we've splintered off the 1 big threat into 4 threats! That's 4x the threat!

So you see pictures of protests holding up swastikas. Oooh, look?! They're NAZIs too. Never mind that the protesters are claiming that DICC is the gestapo. And you see lots of evil symbols like the hammer and sickle, way more nefarious than an eagle clutching arrows with a talon. And so the cycle continues.

[Frax]

Originally Posted by Horse

Why, because they're uneducated hillbillies? OK.

Bottomline is, all soldiers have at least a vague concept that they're doing what they're doing for "freedom justice honor USA patriotism" etc.

They buy in to the system. And no, I'm not talking that these people are there to draw checks. Save that argument for the private contractors. They just believe in a sentimental, perhaps naive, concept of the USA as the freedom fighters that can do no wrong.

They know their occupational hazard. Losing lives, bodyparts, mental faculties. Witnessing death, atrocities.


INTELLIGENT PEOPLE GET IT.


So, lets stop confusing policies that SEND the soldiers to war with any sort of slight to the soldiers. We do not want thinking, intelligent soldiers. We want people who perform tasks and do what they're told.

Oooooooops. The slight is inextricably built in to questioning the policies.

IF you say that, just maybe, perhaps, the military is a puppet of rich, silverhaired chums who just so happen to be the heads of energy and warmachine corporations aren't you basically saying that the soldiers are, possibly, fucking retarded for being part of it?

Why yes, you are! You are blaming the soldiers in part. What's so totally odd is how people can come back from war and believe they were responsible, in part, for perpetuating the bullshit. I guess they must be watching the liberal media when they're on their tour.

So, yeah. You will, by default, get the argument that the military is doing what they're doing to protect our freedoms or even feeding our consumer culture, while spreading our concept of freedom (consumer capitalism).

But what about the counterargument that the freedom of the elite rich is what's at the forefront of this. We're spreading their control of the populous, established hundreds of years ago and maintained ever since.

What about the angle that this entire militia angle is 100% trumped up bullshit. The concept of spreading democracy, bullshit. Freeing other countries, bullshit. Is that so ridiculous when the decision makers have so much to gain fiscally and use that "less than 1% of the population" to base their concept of free market society on?

The real money is made by separating other countries' with their productions. Spending money at home does not net the big corps any more cash.

This is a great point. Except, Obama doesn't get any of it, other than some vague thing that "WAR IS BAD, mmmmkay?" He doesn't know anything about war, about the military, and he doesn't know anything about middle America. Obama IS the elite rich. Thats what the libs don't get. He isn't like you or me. He's a fat cat harvard lawyer, who's written two autobiographies under the age of 50 (yet has done nothing of historic note by that point...), and who has done basically nothing for the last four years other than make a couple well receives speeches and run for president.

I still, as of yet, have seen any single valid reason to vote for this guy. His policies are shit, he'll take more of my money in taxes the same time as he'll tout 'cutting middle and low class taxes'. How do you think he's going to pay for all these promises, its not by cutting any programs other than national defense. Which, thanks to the last lazy ass democrat regime in America, failed to act on many things that led up to 9/11. Do you want more of the same in four or eight years? I don't.

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by Frax

This is a great point. Except, Obama doesn't get any of it, other than some vague thing that "WAR IS BAD, mmmmkay?" He doesn't know anything about war, about the military, and he doesn't know anything about middle America. Obama IS the elite rich. Thats what the libs don't get. He isn't like you or me. He's a fat cat harvard lawyer, who's written two autobiographies under the age of 50 (yet has done nothing of historic note by that point...), and who has done basically nothing for the last four years other than make a couple well receives speeches and run for president.

I still, as of yet, have seen any single valid reason to vote for this guy. His policies are shit, he'll take more of my money in taxes the same time as he'll tout 'cutting middle and low class taxes'. How do you think he's going to pay for all these promises, its not by cutting any programs other than national defense. Which, thanks to the last lazy ass democrat regime in America, failed to act on many things that led up to 9/11. Do you want more of the same in four or eight years? I don't.

You essentially just described Lincoln.

[Eomer]

Originally Posted by Draegan

Not sure if this has been answered since I have a few pages to read yet.

If Russia invades another country like Georgia I wouldn't council war immediately. I would council UN sanctions, Economic sanctions, diplomatic measures. Diving head first into a war with Russia is a sure fire way of starting WW3. I think there are better ways to go about it than shooting first asking questions later.

If Georgia is a full NATO member and is attacked by Russia, NATO members are obliged to protect Georgia from aggression. Period. Either they do so, or the alliance crumbles. What is the point of a military alliance if you don't back it up with force?

Signing Georgia up to NATO is the equivalent of playing Chicken with Russia, or saying "I dare you!"