McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[Malakriss]

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

...
YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT A FUCKING GIFT.

Do you understand?

Rights may be inherent to every living person, but they are not irrevocably bonded with life. Each person has such freedoms, but that freedom includes the right to choose actions that would dispose of their own rights as a consequence to such actions. The forfeiture is inherent in the act that is willfully decided by the individual, it is not granted or removed by any other entity.

Rights are not permanent. Otherwise there would be no such things as responsibility, accountability, or justice. The dilemma is that perception is limited and can not always determine exactly what an individual has done or what rights they retain.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

This enters into the realm of philosophy.

What do we Americans believe in?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
Sure, not a legal document. But a philosophical one, and one that has framed what American morality is in that regard.

ALL MEN are created equal. Not just men born in a certain place.

We have our rights and our government not because our government GRANTS them to us.. but because they are OURS! Nobody gives us our rights, except God. The Government was formed to protect them.

IF you look at human rights and say the only reason we as Americans have them is because the United States Government ALLOWS us to have them, you have missed the entire point of a democracy and how it is WE THE PEOPLE. What the government gives, the government can take away. The government only has power in so far as we have given up certain freedoms for security. The government can never take any more rights than the social contract that WE have drawn up and limited government to allows. IF the government ever tries to go beyond those limits, it is our basic and fundamental RIGHT to overthrow that government and install a new one as the covenant has been broken.

Why should people we take into custody be given rights? Because we believe that ALL humans should have them, because they are their rights. It is not our governments job to defend the rights of non US citizens, but how on earth can we allow government to do what have already deemed to be Immoral and a violation of the human condition.

Look. Either our ideals of innocent before proven guilty work or they don't. Every part of me that loves our Constitution completely rejects the idea that human beings can be held for whatever reason the government deems necessary, for however long the government deems necessary, simply because they are not US Citizens. Why can't we put these men on trial? I don't understand that. Give them a whatever standard we deem acceptable to basic humans of a fair trial. You cannot hope to spread the ideas and hopes of freedom to other people when you tell the rest of the world, "sorry, your value as a human being is less than ours, we don't think God gave you these rights, and they are only special gifts to Americans"

YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT A FUCKING GIFT.

Do you understand?

It is ok if they hate our freedom and want to attack us. I'm sure you will agree that we can't be too careful. Since most terrorists are middle eastern, I don't see the problem with bypassing due process to ensure our safety when there is some reasonable suspicion of a middle easterner! Why do you hate America, sir?

I am John W. McPalin and I approve of this message.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Heavens_Myst

What? Why do non-U.S. citizens conducting acts of war while not in uniform and using civilians as human shields, violating the laws and customs of war, deserve the same rights provided to Americans under the Constitution.

The logic you try and use to equivocate the two is scary as fuck.

In addition to the TJ/declaration of independence stuff mentioned there is another reason for due process. I'm not sure what event is being referenced here but what i'm about to say is universal.

It's to prevent innocents from being prosecuted. You don't need to give these guys an expensive lawyer just give there side a fair chance to prove themselves to be free of guilt should they be innocent. Just put them in some kind of court and don't let it become a circus.

That reminds me, we have world treaties for a reason. So american citizens and soldiers don't get fucked over as well. If you're okay with getting fucked over then so be it.

[Jedite]

Originally Posted by Fammaden

It is ok if they hate our freedom and want to attack us. I'm sure you will agree that we can't be too careful. Since most terrorists are middle eastern, I don't see the problem with bypassing due process to ensure our safety when there is some reasonable suspicion of a middle easterner! Why do you hate America, sir?

I am John W. McPalin and I approve of this message.

The moment we start treating other people differently under the law because of what they believe in or what country they are from, is the moment we lose our Identity as a Nation.

I am as adamantly against terrorism as anyone else(i lost friends in 9/11), however we cannot just walk around and do things choosing which parts of the constitution we are willing to adhere too and which parts we will omit. Thats exactly what religious terrorist be it muslim, christian, or whatever do. They omit parts of their belief system and twist others to suit their agenda. We as a country should be better than that.

[Badass]

Originally Posted by Melchizedek

You are a certified dumb ass...

In Chicago alone there have been 3717 Murders since 2001. Source.

The only difference between Iraq and Chicago is... Well... Crime is up 18% in Chicago in the year 2008 and the regretful deaths of our brave soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines are going down in Iraq. There have been 4100+ soldiers who have died since 2001 (this includes both Afghanistan and Iraq) and there have been 3717 murders in Chicago alone since 2001. The blood on the hands of Mayor Daley (D) is stained a hell of a lot more than anyone in the military our President, yes your President than mine.

Are .... you.....drawing a comparison between a pre-emptive war in Iraq based on false pretenses with the ..... murder rate in an American City? So what you are saying is that the 4,155 soldiers who died in Iraq is a DROP IN THE BUCKET?

Are you saying that losing 4,155 soldiers is a small price to pay for digging up those 500 old mustard gas canisters that we have been finding since 2003 and that the CIA dismissed in finding that No WMD were found in Iraq in 2005?

Is that what the Bush administration told the American public was the reason for going to war in Iraq? Is that what Colin Powell told the U.N?

Originally Posted by Idiot

You have no need to know how the hell we fight the war. There is oversite with liberals who see how we execute the war. It sucks they are not caught but when you have a country actively protecting them, well, its hard to catch. The world is a better place because we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.

I actually do have a right to know how my own country fights wars you fucking idiot. We live in a democracy, we have a constitution and a Bill of Rights - did you know that? Which country is actively protecting the TERRORISTS WHO ACTUALLY ATTACKED THE UNITED STATES? Was is Iraq? Hmmm. Seriously, which country is protecting them?

Republicans have solidified their place as the party of the ignorant - the tough talking, non-negotiating, inept, fragile, strategy less party of the neo-con. WHERE IS OSAMA BIN LADEN and AYMAN AL ZWIHIRI? You have failed for SEVEN YEARS to catch them because you are too stupid and too scared to go after them. You are weak. The fact that the republicans have failed the crucial task of killing these two TERRORISTS is reason alone to vote democratic this election.....and you know it..actually maybe you dont. Idiot.

Originally Posted by Abu Graib Prison and Guantanamo Bay

The delicious irony is, you have to say it was a bad idea to invade Iraq. In saying so you have to say it is bad we closed those rape rooms. It is bad that those people had free elections. It is bad to see, for the first time in history, a real representative republic being born in the middle of a shit hole.

We can sit here and debate whether a rape room or the naked dog piles and electro-shock ho-downs at Abu Ghraib are worse. Actually, I hear that the water boarding going on down at Guantanamo Bay is pretty bad. I guess the point is that the UTTERLY INCOMPETENT LEADERSHIP OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY in planning and executing the Iraq war and occupation resulted in some pretty un-American activities. Way to uphold the integrity and moral standing of the United States.

Originally Posted by Joe Bob The Terrorist Hunter

Dude, shut the fuck up and go back to school... son.

You know, if you were really one of the people we had hunting Bin Laden for the past SEVEN years - I can understand why he is still alive and well. Oh - and in all seriousness - shave that fucking unibrow and go work on that car sitting on the cinder blocks in your front yard. I am definitely not your son..and you are definitely not mine - but do your kids a favor and get an education so they don't have to be embarrassed of you any longer.

[kegkilla]

has this been posted yet?



dumbass is so fucked i love it.

Obama is currently on the verge of losing in Pennsylvania which would be the absolute end of him since there's no way he's taking Florida. shouldn't have pissed off the Clintons (PA loves the Clintons, if you didn't know)

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by gn0me

lol has this been posted yet?

That ad is forceful, effective and accurate. McCain needs to drill very VERY hard Obama's radical leftist positions like that.

The law, one of the few that Obama had the spine to show up to and not vote "present" on, is available for perusal (with amendments) on Illinois' senate site. The relevant sections are:

Originally Posted by Illinois General Assembly

Each class or course in comprehensive sex
14 education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall
15 include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted
16 infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread
17 of HIV

I added the emphasis. But if you follow the link you'll see that the original measure said 6-through-12, but liberals fought it down to K-through-12 and so the 6 was struck through.

Some of you may or may not agree with the measure, but the relevant context here is that Obama, a senator with one of the WORST records in Illinois history, who REFUSED to do his job and vote on hundreds of critical legislation and then repeated fuck up and vote INCORRECTLY on several key ones, would show his colors on stuff like THIS.

[Frax]

Originally Posted by Jedite

The moment we start treating other people differently under the law because of what they believe in or what country they are from, is the moment we lose our Identity as a Nation.

I am as adamantly against terrorism as anyone else(i lost friends in 9/11), however we cannot just walk around and do things choosing which parts of the constitution we are willing to adhere too and which parts we will omit. Thats exactly what religious terrorist be it muslim, christian, or whatever do. They omit parts of their belief system and twist others to suit their agenda. We as a country should be better than that.

Just because we feel all men are created equal doesn't mean we practice it. Slavery went on for almost 100 years after the Declaration of Independence, and thats just one example. Of course, at the time, many felt that africans were not the same race, therefore not 'men' in the definition of the US Constitution/Declaration of Independence. Women couldn't even vote for longer than that, and civil rights for all Americans didn't even start to be really addressed until the 1960s...





Times change, issues change. Human society is no where near the utopia of the ideals put forth in these documents. And, TBQH the documents were written and signed by wealthy white landowners. Their outlook on life was not exactly the same as ours today.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Convo

Part 3

LMAO... Christ, O'Reilly is a jackass. Obama shouldn't have let him run him over like that, it's a disservice to my fucking state. What was with Obama constantly grabbing O'Reilly's thigh too?

Ah well that explains all the Ayers "prep work" they've been doing this weekend.

Oh fucking lol.

William Ayers is getting ready to out-Wright Jeremiah Wright. Ayers has decided to come out to defend his part in declaring war on America and Bombing the US Capitol, the Pentagon and many other Federal buildings as an avowed terrorist....with a comic: (WTF?!)



It's important to note that his "bombs weren't meant to harm" bullshit is just that, since Ayers and his fellow terrorists designed ANTI-PERSONEL bombs that murdered policemen and many of their other bombings resulted in the deaths of bystanders and even some WUO members.

As far as Ayers' ridiculous delusion of the nobility of his terrorist group's actions, they were nothing more than base thugs. They took money from another radical group to break convicts out of prison and even participated on bank heists to bankroll their drug habits.

[Arbitrary]

Democrats and the Speaker of the House have expressed interest in giving the automakers 25+ billion dollars in low interest loans so they can retool their factories because apparently they are getting hammered and are also too big to fail.

I can't really support a candidate who would sign that into law when we've got the largest deficit year ever projected and haven't even finished spending what we are going to spend on the banking industry (and don't forget about job losses and inflation which are still on the rise).

[Mimirswell]

Originally Posted by Khorum

I added the emphasis. But if you follow the link you'll see that the original measure said 6-through-12, but liberals fought it down to K-through-12 and so the 6 was struck through.

Yes, PLEASE do follow the link so Khorum doesn't trick you.

Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.

It doesn't mandate that classes be taught to Kindergarten, only IF they are taught, they must include the prevention of sexually transmitted infections. All the change from 6 to K does is prevent a loophole whereby if you taught it at 5th grade, you didn't have to make explicit instructions on prevention. Hell, you should be happy Khorum, the bill also says that:

All public elementary, junior high, and senior high school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual activity or behavior shall emphasize that abstinence is an effective method of preventing unintended pregnancy.

Those damn liberals and their focus on abstinence.

[Badass]

Originally Posted by Khorum

LMAO... Christ, O'Reilly is a jackass. Obama shouldn't have let him run him over like that, it's a disservice to my fucking state. What was with Obama constantly grabbing O'Reilly's thigh too?

Ah well that explains all the Ayers "prep work" they've been doing this weekend.

PSSSST. Hey dude. If you want to talk about terrorists....talk about a real terrorist like.....OSAMA BIN LADEN. Where is he and why have you failed so miserably for SEVEN FUCKING YEARS to kill him? How can your neo-con friends be SO INCREDIBLY STUPID.

Terrorist Scale of Evilness

Osama Bin Laden > Willie LOL WHO GIVES A FUCK Ayers.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by kegkilla

dumbass is so fucked i love it.

Am I missing something, what is wrong with that? The lipstick on a pig comment?

[gn0me]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

Am I missing something, what is wrong with that? The lipstick on a pig comment?

It gives dumbass McCain/Palin supporters an easy way to twist Obama's words and play the gender card.

[Mimirswell]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

Am I missing something, what is wrong with that? The lipstick on a pig comment?

Because Palin made a hokey joke about the difference between a Hockey mom and a pitbull and the answer was lipstick. The criticism shouldn't hold because "lipstick on a pig" is a common phrase. One Obama has used in the past prior to Palin joining the ticket and one McCain has used quite a few times as well.

Later, it turned out that McCain himself used the phrase more than once, including last year, when he was talking about Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's 1990s health care plan.

He said last October, "I think they put some lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."

Speaking about opponents of President Bush's Iraq strategy last year, McCain criticized their reasoning.

"It gets down to whether you support what is being done in this new strategy or you don't," McCain said. "You can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig, in my view."