McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[Erumaron]

Originally Posted by Warrian

Give us some examples.

Watch Part 2 of the Obama interview? The 19% growth under the Bush admin is one example of the misleading tidbits and Obama calls him out on it, though, he continues to use it after that. The constant interupting when Obama isn't just spewing a talking point but giving a well thought out answer that is shaped around conveying the point in such a way that somebody who doesn't have a degree in economics understands what is being said.

[Zora]

No, I've not read all 280-something pages of this thread so maybe I missed this somewhere. But Ouch! This could be a problem for Ms. "Tough Fiscal Conservative" Palin.

Of the 50 states, Alaska ranks No. 1 in taxes per resident and No. 1 in spending per resident. Its tax burden per resident is 21/2 times the national average; its spending, more than double. The trick is that Alaska's government spends money on its own citizens and taxes the rest of us to pay for it.

Alaska is, in essence, an adjunct member of OPEC. It has four different taxes on oil, which produce more than 89% of the state's unrestricted revenue. On average, three-quarters of the value of a barrel of oil is taken by the state government before that oil is permitted to leave the state. Alaska residents each get a yearly check for about $2,000 from oil revenues, plus an additional $1,200 pushed through by Palin last year to take advantage of rising oil prices. Any sympathy the governor of Alaska expresses for folks in the lower 48 who are suffering from high gas prices or can't afford to heat their homes is strictly crocodile tears.

Sarah Palin's Alaskonomics - TIME

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Again, for the second time, this sentence does not make sense. I'm not disagreeing with your statement, because you didn't make one. She's correct about the consequences.... what? What are the consequences? What can no one argue with? If you've got an explanation for what appears to be a colossal gaffe, I'd love to hear it. But you're really not saying, well, anything in the above sentence.

I must've missed your FIRST time, but are you actually arguing about the COLOSSAL influence of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on the mortgage industry in the US? She was correct in articulating the fact that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have aggregated too much economic influence on the lives of hundreds of millions of Americans.

Together they comprise over HALF of the total mortgage positions in the US and they had even less governmental accountability than insurance and some financial institutions who exert far less influence. She was communicating the EXACT SAME frustration about the influence of a central bank that Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson fought against, the same frustration Teddy Roosevelt legislated against, and the same crusade against the tremendous influence of the Federal Reserve that Ron Paul campaigned against this season.

You could disagree with the politics behind it, that's fine. But unless you're attempting another semantic gotcha (which has no legs at all because, SEMANTICALLY, congress already signed Paulson a blank check earlier this summer to expend billions of the taxpayer's resources to realize the transparency and accountability he was asking out of those institutions), I don't see how you can argue about how expansive their influences on homeowners lives are. Unless you're arguing that Paulson's announcement that FNMA and freddie mac had "exaggerated" on their books.

[Badass]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Yeah, I thought so. Go "succeed" in using a calendar, idiot.

You are mentally challenged. Let me explain this to your feeble mind a little clearer you fucking nutcase.

You claimed that 1.77 tons of "WMD" were discovered in Iraq. However, the IAEA had already sealed that material and knew where it was located after the first Gulf War. Do you understand that Khorum, should I get crayons for you?

You claimed that 500 "WMD" munitions were found in Iraq based on this article dated June 29, 2006.

That article was written after the CIA's final report in April of 2005 finding that there were no WMD found in Iraq. As such, you think I "don't know how to use a calendar". Now look at the facts you bumbling fool -

The June 2006 Defense link article states clearly IN THE FIRST FUCKING SENTENCE that:

The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 .....

The article goes on to state that:

The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

Those old inoperable rusted weapons were leftover artillery shells from the Iran - Iraq war. We had run into various munitions of this type since 2003. As such, the CIA's report from 2005 took them into account and dismissed them as evidence of WMD in Iraq.

Do you have down's syndrome? If you admit you have a learning disability, I might stop picking on you. You really are embarrassing yourself.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Zora

No, I've not read all 280-something pages of this thread so maybe I missed this somewhere. But Ouch! This could be a problem for Ms. "Tough Fiscal Conservative" Palin.

The woman passed a REAL windfall tax oil company profits and then created a "Energy Debit Card" program that handed out debit cards to every Alaskan so they pay for their bills.

Aside from cutting costs and slashing the state budget of 231 million in wasteful spending, there really isn't much of a record of "tough fiscal conservatism" in her record. She's even raised the oil dividend payouts for alaskans.

[Erumaron]

I'd be curious to see the average energy bill (hellooo heating bill) for an Alaskan next to the oil dividend payouts. To the googles I go!

Haha, amusing that I find this when I go looking. So yesterday what I'm guessing is a major energy provider for Alaska raised it's rates 22%...Alaskans get that $1200 dollar check this Friday.

Enstar plans to increase rates by 22 percent: Top Stories | adn.com

Oh, and those oil dividend payouts are massive...I was originally thinking they might barely overcome the costs utilities, the cited reason for the extra $1200 was rising costs. EVERY resident of Alaska gets the payment though. As long as you're not living alone it's going to surpass the amount spent on utilities by a lot.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by Badass

You are mentally challenged. Let me explain this to your feeble mind a little clearer you fucking nutcase.

You claimed that 1.77 tons of "WMD" were discovered in Iraq. However, the IAEA had already sealed that material and knew where it was located after the first Gulf War. Do you understand that Khorum, should I get crayons for you?

You claimed that 500 "WMD" munitions were found in Iraq based on this article dated June 29, 2006.

That article was written after the CIA's final report in April of 2005 finding that there were no WMD found in Iraq. As such, you think I "don't know how to use a calendar". Now look at the facts you bumbling fool -

The June 2006 Defense link article states clearly IN THE FIRST FUCKING SENTENCE that:


The article goes on to state that:



Those old inoperable rusted weapons were leftover artillery shells from the Iran - Iraq war. We had run into various munitions of this type since 2003. As such, the CIA's report from 2005 took them into account and dismissed them as evidence of WMD in Iraq.

Do you have down's syndrome? If you admit you have a learning disability, I might stop picking on you. You really are embarrassing yourself.

It's about time someone successfully called Khorum out on this bullshit.

[Zitar]

Originally Posted by Khorum

The woman passed a REAL windfall tax oil company profits and then created a "Energy Debit Card" program that handed out debit cards to every Alaskan so they pay for their bills.

Aside from cutting costs and slashing the state budget of 231 million in wasteful spending, there really isn't much of a record of "tough fiscal conservatism" in her record. She's even raised the oil dividend payouts for alaskans.

After cutting all that money from the budget you would think she could of gave the feds back that $223 million she kept from the bridge to nowhere. "Tough fiscal conservatism" and pork barrel fed hand outs aren't one in the same. Kind of like Obama's "wealth redistributing" tax plan, taking tax money from large wealthy states and redistributing to smaller rural states.

I would love for a real fiscal conservative unfortunately they are shunned by their own party, see my congressmen Jeff Flake as a perfect example.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Badass

You claimed that 1.77 tons of "WMD" were discovered in Iraq. However, the IAEA had already sealed that material and knew where it was located after the first Gulf War. Do you understand that Khorum, should I get crayons for you?

Go find me ONE functioning Iraqi reactor that uses POWDERED uranium---not the cake form---that the IAEA found. Go find me ONE functioning Iraqi reactor that uses that powdered uranium in granularities ideal for aerosol dispersal like in a radiological bomb. You're a fucking moron, POLONIUM and CESIUM-137 are highly dangerous isotopes that are IDEAL for radiological dirty bombs, and that's exactly what we brought home from Iraq.

Originally Posted by Badass

You claimed that 500 "WMD" munitions were found in Iraq based on this article dated June 29, 2006.

That article was written after the CIA's final report in April of 2005 finding that there were no WMD found in Iraq. As such, you think I "don't know how to use a calendar". Now look at the facts you bumbling fool

Yes, you fucking twit, this DEFENSE DEPARTMENT ANNOUNCEMENT, which accompanied a sitting general's testimony in front of the House Armed Services committee was released in July 2006. It communicates, VERY CLEARLY that the munitions found were EXACTLY the type and consistency of the sort of chemical weapons that Saddam Hussein used on the the Al Anfal campaign in the late 80's and then later on the kurd cities and communities like the massacre of Halabja after the first gulf war. The exact same types of weapons we were forced to enact the "NO-FLY ZONE" over northern Iraq for.

The EXACT SAME CHEMICAL WMD's WE HAD COME LOOKING FOR.

You linked an MSNBC article from April 2005, from the Iraq Survey Group who that provided their apparently-premature conclusion that their search has gone "as far as feasible". YOUR article mentions NOTHING about the cyclosarin warheads nor the radiological materials.

So not ONLY have you failed to process calendars at all, since it's obvious that a General's testimony in front of the House Armed Services committee a FULL YEAR after overrides the premature conclusions of the Iraq Services Group, but you're a fucking liar also.

[Eomer]

I must've missed your FIRST time, but are you actually arguing about the COLOSSAL influence of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on the mortgage industry in the US?

No, I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. I'm saying your sentence that you have cut and pasted twice now made no fucking sense. At all. You inferred that she made some comments about consequences of their huge influence, but in reality your sentence didn't actually mention what they may be, and then said no one could argue with it. Well yeah, I can't argue with nothing.

As far as the rest of your post, I really didn't read any of that in to her comments at all. It sounded to me like she just flat out didn't know what Fannie and Freddie are or what they do, and she just instead chose to stick with the safe Republican talking points of "shrinking government" to save "taxpayers" from "financial burdens" by making government more "efficient" in relation to two institutions that are not even government programs.

But your talking points sound better, for sure, and make sense to me. But I think it's pretty obvious she had no fuckign clue what she was talking about.

I don't see how you can argue about how expansive their influences on homeowners lives are. Unless you're arguing that Paulson's announcement that FNMA and freddie mac had "exaggerated" on their books

Again, I'm not arguing any of that. I'm arguing she didn't know when to shut her fucking mouth.

[Khorum]

Like I've mentioned, if you wanted to criticize her "tough fiscal conservatism" credentials, there are FAR FAR better examples than the Alaska's oil dividend, which Alaskan governors have been expanding since Palin was still in grade school.

[Zora]

Originally Posted by Zitar

After cutting all that money from the budget you would think she could of gave the feds back that $223 million she kept from the bridge to nowhere. "Tough fiscal conservatism" and pork barrel fed hand outs aren't one in the same. Kind of like Obama's "wealth redistributing" tax plan, taking tax money from large wealthy states and redistributing to smaller rural states.

I would love for a real fiscal conservative unfortunately they are shunned by their own party, see my congressmen Jeff Flake as a perfect example.

They're the "tax and spend" conservatives. They've managed to stick that label on Democrats, and that was once appropriate for Dems, but the reality has changed and the truth is coming out about the tax and spend conservatives.

[Warrian]

Originally Posted by Erumaron

Watch Part 2 of the Obama interview? The 19% growth under the Bush admin is one example of the misleading tidbits and Obama calls him out on it, though, he continues to use it after that. The constant interupting when Obama isn't just spewing a talking point but giving a well thought out answer that is shaped around conveying the point in such a way that somebody who doesn't have a degree in economics understands what is being said.

How is it misleading? You're just going by what Obama said "That's not true!" but they don't go into depth. How did he call O'Reilly out? By saying that's not true? Come on.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Tuco

It's about time someone successfully called Khorum out on this bullshit.

SUCCESSFULLY? LOL that moron, sunder and all the liberal twats tried that fucking line back last year. With those same arguments. That's why sunder has me on ignore. But this Badass dumbfuck is too stupid to read a fucking calendar.

Here's what it comes down to: The chair of the NGIC (the National Ground Intelligence Center, essentially the DOD's uniformed intelligence chief) presented sworn testimony to Congress's House Armed Services Committee that yes, in fact, we found Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction of the type and configuration that were used by Saddam to murder 110,000+ kurds. The same types of WMD's that Saddam used against the Iranians. The same WMD's that Chemical Ali was hung for using in his crimes against humanity.

Sure they weren't in the volumes that Colin Powell told the UN they'd be in. And the radiological material we have siezed (the sort which Bechtel built Yucca Mountain Storage for) really WERE under the IAEA inventories, but reprocessed into radiological bomb dispersal, instead of the industrial "cake" form. But we weren't the ones running around claiming that we found ZERO WMD's in Iraq, in fact we found hundreds of minor WMD's that were seized (a bestselling book came out that enumerated them) but not in the quantities that Powell or Bush promised the UN.

But I'm not the one that went around saying there were ZERO WMD's in Iraq. Those dorks kept bashing their head that there were ZERO ZIP ZILCH NADA---they even tried to foist off cyclosarin and mustard gas as laundry detergents (because they had no fucking non-proliferation education whatsoever).

[Astrocreep]

Obama looked like an idiot in that second oreilly clip. i like how people apologize for his stuttering by saying he is "well thought out." just admit he is a rubbish speaker when he doesnt have a script in front of him.