McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[FulorianC]

Originally Posted by Erumaron

I LOL'ed.

The first time my Apache helicopter got shot down by an archer I uninstalled the game and never played again.

I hope you realize that actually happened a lot in Vietnam.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Manseed

You're going to turn this into a religious debate, but Christianity teaches that a supernatural being created the earth and heavens. So no, there is not a difference between 'creationism' and Christianity. But, we can keep redefining faith and religion as needed to make sure it fits with science. Or you can just admit that your bro Obama believes in something just as crazy as what you're dismissing as stupidity.

Oh and I like how you throw that 'believe what you want' line at me and basically just repeat exactly what I said. No, it shouldn't be taught in schools. Who are you arguing against?

I'm not arguing against anything, I'm stating my opinion on the matter. A matter which, again, does not involve anyone, much less my "bro" Obama's religious beliefs. I already stated, what I find offensive is stuff like "creation science" or creationism or whatever they ddecide to call it this week. Why are you trying to turn what I said around? Who gives a shit really?

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Manseed

You're going to turn this into a religious debate, but Christianity teaches that a supernatural being created the earth and heavens. So no, there is not a difference between 'creationism' and Christianity. But, we can keep redefining faith and religion as needed to make sure it fits with science. Or you can just admit that your bro Obama believes in something just as crazy as what you're dismissing as stupidity.

Oh and I like how you throw that 'believe what you want' line at me and basically just repeat exactly what I said. No, it shouldn't be taught in schools. Who are you arguing against?

No see, what happened was you said Obama was a creationist by default due to his Christianity. Then, you were provided a quote which shows quite emphatically that being Christian doesn't automatically mean you believe in creationism (hint: it doesn't) and that Obama favors the teaching of real science.

Then, having been proven wrong, you didn't man up and admit you were wrong on it and instead chose to misdirect and deflect.

[Lucifar]

Originally Posted by gnomad

Wrong, but nice try.

Go read Hamilton's Federalist Papers, the minutes of the Constituntional Congress, etc. and find where that is the meaning.

You won't find it. The General Welfare did not mean a welfare state as we know it today.



Not the Federal Gov I will give you that, but they are involved when it comes to differences of the several states. So if state 1 allows it and state 2 doesn't then the Fed must get involved.

What's the obsession over 200+ year old documents? I know they were a huge part of the founding of the country and all that, but you can still have admiration for your history without feeling the need to try and make all your current day laws follow those writings. It's just as bad as religions being obsessed with 2000 year old writings, and then 'interpreting' them to try and fit current fads.

Most of Westerns Europe has proven that we are now wealthy enough in 1st world society's to have a wealthy prosperous country and still provide a solid level of welfare for all. Sure - it allows some of the population to live as lazy bludgers, but does that really annoy you so much that you would allow others to be born into bad situations or thru medical reasons suffer needlessly to prevent the mechanism's that allow a small lazy minority to slip thru?

But back in reference to my first paragraph, do and make laws that are right for here and now. The Magna Carta was a document that is at least as historically important as the American Constitution for what it meant and the things it led to. And while a lot of the laws and idea's of that document are still an integral part of many western legal systems, we don't go and quote the thing and try and interpret its writings as if it's the true essence of humanity that cannot be deviated from.

[Dashal]

Originally Posted by Erumaron

With the choice of Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) as his running mate, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) is not backing down from oil drilling. Palin is a champion for drilling, the Bush-Cheney approach to energy policy that brought us $4.00-per-gallon gasoline and the rising threat of global warming.

Yeah why would we drill our own oil when we can just keep buying more from Saudi Arabia?

It amazes me that some people wouldnt want to do this. It's the only reasonable choice. Drill our own oil while developing alternate fuels and putting infrastructure in place for natural gas, wind, solar, nuclear and anything else that's feasible.

[Dashal]

Originally Posted by Lucifar

Most of Westerns Europe has proven that we are now wealthy enough in 1st world society's to have a wealthy prosperous country and still provide a solid level of welfare for all. Sure - it allows some of the population to live as lazy bludgers, but does that really annoy you so much that you would allow others to be born into bad situations or thru medical reasons suffer needlessly to prevent the mechanism's that allow a small lazy minority to slip thru?

Most of Western Europe has also proven that going too far socialist is a very bad idea, which is why they have pulled back so much from it. As for "solid level of welfare" that's the whole universal healthcare debate which is too much of a derail to get into here, suffice to say while the US system is flawed, the European system is as well.

[Astrocreep]

Hillary approves!

Clinton congratulates Palin
Posted: 05:50 PM ET

From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney
Sen. Hillary Clinton praised the choice of a female for McCain's vp.
Sen. Hillary Clinton praised the choice of a female for McCain's vp.

(CNN) – Hillary Clinton praised the historic nature of John McCain's vice presidential selection in a brief statement released Friday that was eagerly anticipated by both presidential campaigns.

“We should all be proud of Governor Sarah Palin's historic nomination, and I congratulate her and Senator McCain," Clinton, the first woman to win a presidential primary, said in the statement. "While their policies would take America in the wrong direction, Governor Palin will add an important new voice to the debate.”

The McCain campaign has made little secret of the fact the selection of Palin — the first woman to appear on a Republican presidential ticket — was in part designed to court supporters of Clinton's White house bid, some of whom feel the New York senator was treated unfairly during the primaries because of her gender and remain wary of supporting Obama.

Palin directly mentioned Clinton by name in her acceptance speech earlier Friday, saying, "Hillary left 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America. But it turns out the women of America aren't finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all."

Clinton's statement reacting to Palin is markedly different than the Obama campaign's initial reaction which made no mention of the historic nature of the Alaska Republican's VP candidacy — instead painting her as woefully inexperienced to be commander-in-chief. The Obama campaign later released a joint statement from both the Illinois senator and his running mate, Joe Biden, praising Palin for making history.

It remains unclear just how many former Clinton supporters Palin may attract, but California Sen. Barbara Boxer said Friday that McCain is "badly mistaken" if he expects backers of the New York senator to break ranks with the Democratic party because of Palin.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

Hillary approves!

Negative.

said in the statement. "While their policies would take America in the wrong direction

[whatsamattau]

Originally Posted by Dashal

Yeah why would we drill our own oil when we can just keep buying more from Saudi Arabia?

The oil we'd get from drilling ANWR wouldn't put a dent in our imports. It wouldn't even offset growth. Jesus fucking christ, do you people read? Or is your depth of knowledge limited to:

Our Oil = GOOD! ----------- Their Oil = BAD

[TheMarauder]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

Hillary approves!

Her speech there is just as gracious as her speech at the DNC. I can see her seething with fury.

[Cybsled]

Drilling for more oil is the equivalent of a heroine addict going to a methadone clinic. Sure, you cut back on shooting heroine, but you're still getting your fucking fix.

The only long term solution is to REDUCE our need for the substance.

[gn0me]

Originally Posted by Dashal

Yeah why would we drill our own oil when we can just keep buying more from Saudi Arabia?

It amazes me that some people wouldnt want to do this. It's the only reasonable choice. Drill our own oil while developing alternate fuels and putting infrastructure in place for natural gas, wind, solar, nuclear and anything else that's feasible.

Drilling our own oil would take years of startup and, like someone already said, wouldn't put a dent in the massive fucking amount that we import. It's a false promise of an easy fix, that would only end up benefiting the oil industry in the end.

[Arbitrary]

Even though the cost is going up the longer we can go before going hog wild with drilling on our own turf the better. Even though the cost has increased I'm fine with the long term strategy of eating up as much of everyone else's natural resources that we can. A depleted Middle East effectively removes them from the game board.

Rising prices also hurts developing countries more than it hurts us. Fuck em.

[Digits]

Originally Posted by Lucifar

What's the obsession over 200+ year old documents? I know they were a huge part of the founding of the country and all that, but you can still have admiration for your history without feeling the need to try and make all your current day laws follow those writings. It's just as bad as religions being obsessed with 2000 year old writings, and then 'interpreting' them to try and fit current fads.

Our founding fathers kicked ass, that's why. Ben Franklin fucked bitches and smoke pot as he spout off words of wisdom like 'Fuck bitches and smoke pot'. George Washington went down on his wife with wooden chompers and she liked it. Thomas Jefferson was 12 years old when he wrote the Declaration of Independence.

Actually,

It was one of the only genuine moments of history where a host of intelligent men got together and worked for the greater good. They decided that had dealt with enough bullshit from the monarchy, and sought to create a society that suffered neither from neglect nor oppression. And they did it, mostly. The constitution is a work of genius. It is the governing equivalent of the 10 commandments. It lays down the framework for a functional and fair society just like the commandments layed down the framework for a morality. It's wisdom to look back to our foundations as we move forward. We have literalists who destroy the underlying message of the document (Scalia), but we could do much, much worse than following the constitution.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

Hillary approves!

Bullshit. This is like being cheated on by her husband with a younger woman. In this case the husband is the country. Hillary spent her entire life in the public eye, lived with Bill through his infidelity, 8 years as First Lady, got shot at in Bosnia, and spent the last two years campaigning very hard against a field of men and put 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling.

Now, the country is letting "America's Next Top Model" crack through that glass ceiling with one tap of her stiletto heel. Why not just make her the Presidental pick and put Tyra Banks as VP?

This is the worse VP pick since Geraldine Ferraro.

The #1 reason this pick is bad for McCain is that it blunts the best argument McCain had against Obama, experience. According to polls experience was the #1 concern the voters had of Obama. Also, according to polls, age is the #1 concern voters had of McCain. Maybe McCain is trying to blunt the age issue with Palin but it does not. It makes it stronger because Palin is simply not Presidential material. Obama chose Biden because he did not want a "yes man". Do you think if McCain wants to invade Iran that Palin will push back on that idea? McCain would just say "Shut up cunt!".