McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[tad10]

Originally Posted by emoo

So this debate boils down to your willingness to accept the content of the research update. Fantastic.

My willingness? What about your willingness to accept Levitt as-is? Or Soriaks? or Mippo. AFAIK, I've got more actual scholars on my side. You guys have got two (though see below).

Legalized abortion and crime effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My favorite part of the article? The fact that the fucking Guttmacher institute provided Levitt & Donohue an 'updated version of their dataset which had better measures of abortion' And who is Guttmacher? Why one of the lobbying arms of Planned Parenthood. That's just lovely.

Planned Parenthood actively supporting racist research. Today.

You guys are fucking clueless.

Anyway -- enough derailment from the main topic. The Guttmacher reference in the wiki article made my day so I'm done. You guys can continue to kill future democrats. I've done -- if not my best -- my slightly-above-mediocre.

* * *

So have you guys seen this?

Apologies if previously posted.

Poynter Online - Forums



Tina Fey as Sarah Palin in.... wait for it... 2004.

[emoo]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Anyways, Obama "on the cuff" inadvertently lets slip about his "muslim faith":

You must have pissed yourself with delight when you heard that gem.
I want to see full context tho.

[Mippo]

Originally Posted by Khorum

OK i've gone over that video twice and I must've glossed over where they talked about a 9/11 tribute video as a central cause for the whole "Get a Shovel" argument (which wasn't the cause for MSNBC's decision, just an example of the sort of behavior that precipitated it).

Ah it's in the article, nm. Should probably mention that Joe Scarborough has been a giant douchebag too.

Anyways, Obama "on the cuff" inadvertently lets slip about his "muslim faith":

Which doesn't even compare to this slip where McCain's campaign manager called his vice presidential choice Governor FAILIN! Way to show how you really feel!

[kegkilla]

BREAKING NEWS: THE REAL FATHER OF BRISTOL PALIN'S BABY IS A NEGRO

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Mippo

Which doesn't even compare to this slip where McCain's campaign manager called his vice presidential choice Sarah FAILIN! Way to show how you really feel!

LOL yeah, remember that leaked "hot-mike" discussion with so-called RNC strategists saying "it's over" __BEFORE__ Palin made her speech?

Yeah, those guys actually get paid to be THAT WRONG.

[emoo]

Originally Posted by tad10

My willingness? What about your willingness to accept Levitt as-is?

So, for no particular reason, we should just ignore research that has been updated directly in response to Levitt?

Planned Parenthood actively supporting racist research. Today.
You guys can continue to kill future democrats.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by emoo

You must have pissed yourself with delight when you heard that gem.
I want to see full context tho.

Nah, I giggled a little when I found out that Obama tried to get the dKos trolls to cut it out, though. I giggled even harder when the dKos trolls refused.

[Jayblah]

YouTube - Chris Wallace v. Rick Davis on bridge to nowhere

[Arbitrary]

How does she reinforce the maverick and independent aspects of John McCain? She's extremely far right and was chosen to shore up McCain's base and court women voters at the same time.

[Designz]

Originally Posted by Jayblah

YouTube - Chris Wallace v. Rick Davis on bridge to nowhere

Geez, it seems all the McCain campaign leaders do is talk, talk, and talk until their interview is over, avoiding to answer the questions directly. It's a good strategy though.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

How does she reinforce the maverick and independent aspects of John McCain? She's extremely far right and was chosen to shore up McCain's base and court women voters at the same time.

The bridge to nowhere WAS cancelled. The claim that she asked for the bridge was a ridiculous spin attempt about Palin's insistence that the federal funds would be better spent on a FERRY which would serve several communities along the coast. Palin successfully lobbied to cancel the bridge and got the ferry (with the icebreaker features that the residents were ORIGINALLY ASKING FOR ANYWAY) and saved the government 300 million dollars.

Palin followed through with her fiscally conservative position and cut 230 million dollars from the state's wasteful budgets to cut spending.

But as far as being "hard-right", Palin NOT ONLY created a new cabinet-level authority to police greenhouse gas emissions in the state, she fought Big Oil and imposed what amounts to a REAL windfall tax, which is something Obama and Clinton only talked and dreamed about. And what did the "far-right" conservative Palin do with the extra windfall? She issued "energy debit cards" to all Alaskans that they can use to pay for their heating and electricity costs.

The "OMGPALINISSOOOOOCONSERVATIVE" bullshit doesn't survive contact with her record. Palin's (or anyone's) 80% approval rating is only possible with broad support from BOTH parties, and she has done that by steering a decidedly centrist and aggressively populist approach.

In fact, Palin has committed that she won't promote new anti-abortion laws in the state. She used her first veto to protect the benefits of gay workers from Republican legislation. And despite the acrimony of her own party and advisers, Palin opted to keep a failing state Dairy company afloat so that the farmers and workers would find new work in a "soft landing" bailout.

Fact is, her record truly IS that of a reformer.... just whether it's really conservative is the question. Which is something you're gonna hear a LOT more from conservative commentators.

[Arbitrary]

Just keep copying and pasting the same links and we'll all pretend she doesn't think that a girl who was raped by her father should have to keep the child, banning books from a public library is acceptable, and the US represents the will of God out in the world.

edit - Jesus Christ, do you even read your links?

"In the first veto of an administration that isn't yet a month old, Palin said she rejected the bill despite her disagreement with a state Supreme Court order earlier this month that directed the state to offer benefits to same-sex partners of state employees.

Advice from her new attorney general said the bill passed by the Legislature was unconstitutional, she said.

"Signing this bill would be in direct violation of my oath of office," Palin said in a prepared statement released by her administration Thursday night."

----------------

She disagrees that same-sex partners of state employees should share in their benefits. That is yet one more conservative stance. Vetoing a bill because it was going to be ruled unconstitutional anyway is pragmatic but doesn't say dick about her personal views.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

Just keep copying and pasting the same links and we'll all pretend she doesn't think that a girl who was raped by her father should have to keep the child, banning books from a public library is acceptable, and the US represents the will of God out in the world.

What books have she banned, arbitrary? What sweeping abortion reform has she enacted? Has she overturned Roe v. Wade anymore than Illinois or California has? C'mon tough guy, DEEDS before WORDS.

As far as words go, Palin has committed that she would not propose new anti-abortion legislation. The ONLY mention of that "banning books" diatribe was hearsay from a disgruntled librarian and yet the record of her term isn't conservative at all.

Jesus Christ, do you even read your links?"

I've QUOTED that part where Palin rejected the Republican position repeatedly and ESPECIALLY the fact that she vetoed that bill to stay consistent with her strict constitutionalist views. John McCain voted against the gay marriage ban even though he was against same-sex unions precisely because of the same reason. It WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That's pretty much exactly what the constittution was designed to do.

So?

That bill was actually an attempt by the Alaska legislature to OVERTURN a supreme court decision on gay benefits, although Palin internally agreed with the measure, her principles about the sanctity of the constitution and the separation of powers overcame whatever political costs there may have been for vetoing it.

What it says about her personal views is that she BELIEVES STRONGLY IN THE SANCTITY OF THE CONSTITUTION and would jeopardize her immediate political well-being to pursue that conviction. What did it say about Obama when he refused to show one ounce of spine on votes as critical as protecting the privacy of child abuse victims?

McCain remains opposed to Roe V. Wade and yet his most recent position is that the states should all hold referendums on abortion BEFORE any attempt to overturn it is held. And before any of that, before McCain proposes ANY changes to RvW, his first commitment has always been to prevent the selection of activist judges so that stuff like RvW would never happen anyway.

[earthfell]

Originally Posted by Khorum

What books have she banned, arbitrary?

Luckily some brave souls who respect the US Constitution were able to step in and stop her scheme to fire the city librarian, a true American who refused to fall in line with Palin's demands to censure books. So disgusted was the librarian, however, that she resigned from her position.

The list of books Palin wanted banned are:

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy’s Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It’s Okay if You Don’t Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley’s Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O’Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women’s Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The Bastard by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil’s Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won’t by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth

[Khorum]

And which of them are currently banned?

Which of them have been pulled off the shelves exactly? There are HUNDREDS of book challenges made every year, not always by "ultraconservatives" but often by developmental psychologists. While most of them are kneejerk moralistic responses, fact is there are book challenges in every part of the country and they're rarely welcomed by EVERYONE.

Did Palin actually BAN any books after the Librarian was fired? Palin was mayor long after she had left and __NOT ONE__ of those books were banned.

In fact, neither TIME nor the AP/Yahoo folks that ran that story have EVER successfully produced the Librarian to make a statement, what TIME presented you was hearsay (which they readily mentioned in the article) and the one meaningful fact that we can glean from the incident:

NONE of the books had ever been banned and there's simply no record of an administrative attempt at a banning either during that librarian's tenure nor with any librarian afterwards.