McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[MrSpitz]

You could probably take the time to understand the problems of energy or healthcare or education so instead of sounding like a bunch of political strategists and college kids arguing about bowl games and popularity you could be bitching about things that actually effect us.


IE: McCain is a creationist ignornant corrupt XXXX because his healthcare plan is just as shitty as Obamas and provides no sensible relief to our problem (which it doesn't).

Instead of: OMFG THE POLLS ARE A LITTLE OFF AND SOMEONE IS CALLING SOMEONE SEXIST WHEN WILL SHE INTERVIEW


But don't worry, just sit back and let the vitriol of the system absorb you so that you just vote because you hate what the other candidate's party stands for. It's not like change starts at the grassroot level, and besides most of our problems are so complex and hopeless anyway it's better to let someone trust worthy like a politician handle them.

[Mippo]

Originally Posted by Khorum

HAHAHAHA BLIND FAITH?

McCain's entire LIFE has been laid out for all to see during the last twenty six years of his astonishing career. McCain has changed the fundamental practice of American Governance in a way that is matched only by very few legislators.

McCain-Feingold changed the way campaigns work. McCain-Edwards-Kennedy changed the way HMOS, Insurance and patients interact and has protected the rights of American healthcare for decades to come. McCain-Kennedy has changed the texture of the immigration debate.

We've all SEEN McCain's bipartisanship and fairness for decades here. The only people who "don't know" about McCain's contributions are the truly ignorant dickbags around here.

When McCain says he will work with Democrats he just needs to point at the former Democratic Vice-Presidential candidate that CAMPAIGNS WITH HIM, Joe Liebermann, as living proof. He only needs to look at all his bipartisan work in the congress. He only has to cite the senators on both side of the aisle who heap glowing praise on McCain's genuine integrity.

And yet, when asked to explain ANY LEVEL OF OBAMA'S 17-year CAREER OF MALFEASANCE, not one of you has ever come up with genuine evidence that Obama is anywhere NEAR the person you believe him to be:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Oh lol and let's take a look at the sort of FURTHERING Obama has done since he graduated from Columbia after rooming with a cocaine addict named Sadik.

Obama gets discovered by one of the most corrupt Arab powermongers in the country, Tony Rezko, who had been partnered with the son of Nation-of-Islam founder Elijah Muhammad. Gets a job at the firm that represented Rezko, proceeds to work on a Rezmar project that takes government money to rehab old senior homes and then "fails" without giving back the money.

Obama then shacks up with Bill Ayers, the leader of a terrorist group that bombed the Pentagon, murdered police officers and who believes he didn't do ENOUGH, from whose home---and with Rezko/Muhammad's money---Obama's political career was LAUNCHED. That's right, as if Obama's wacky pakistani radical friends in College weren't enough, he launched his career from the salon of an avowed TERRORIST.

Said "Political Career" was launched by Obama STEALING his very first elected office by "SUING" all his opponents off the ballot (including a REAL community activist, Alice Palmer), challenging their nomination petitions whether they were valid or not by sending lawyers in at the middle of the night during New Years. Obama even admitted that what he did was wrong but justified it by saying that Illinois got a "pretty good senator" in exchange.

But we didn't.

Obama then proceeded to become one of the worst senators in Illinois state history, having one of the worst attendance records, voting according to his personal advantage ONLY and refusing to show any political courage __AT ALL__. Obama failed to take a stance that would improve the lives of his constituents, yet never failing to shunt lucrative low-income housing development contracts to his arab powermonger friends. In fact, when community activists started protesting the delinquent construction practices of Obama's corrupt contractor buddies, OBAMA WROTE LETTERS TO THOSE ACTIVISTS TO CONVINCE THEM TO STOP RESISTING HIS FRIEND. This while Obama routinely shuffled lucrative contracts to his friends Rezko and Muhammad in addition to giving out plush state jobs for Rezko's friends.

During all this time Obama managed to write TWO books while failing to provide any meaningful legislation for his constituents. Not to say that Obama failed ALL his constituents, Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam got a GREAT SENATOR out of Obama since Obama elevated TWO senior members of Farrakhan's hate group to his staff as Treasurer and Director of Constituent affairs.

Obama's clearly expressed the worst sort of judgment throughout his career, but most times it's obvious that it comes down to plain incompetence. Like when Obama said "OOPS I PRESSED THE WRONG BUTTON on critical legislation votes on the few times that he wasn't absent or voting "present". Was this just once? No, it was a repeated pattern of "pressing the wrong button" from 1996 to 2002. In one case Obama's mistake vote was the critical vote that denied funding to an inner-city youth center that would have taken vulnerable kids off the gang-blighted streets.

I haven't even BEGUN on Obama's collusion with Jeremiah Wright, who had toured the rogue state capitals of the world alongside Louis Farrakhan, but maybe you can help us illuminate where it is you and these "others have shown" an Obama career that resembles the man and the integrity you have placed so much faith on.

And YOU want to fucking talk about "BLIND FAITH"?

Can YOU explain why Obama's positions on Education favor the corrupt teachers unions and insist on MORE OF THE SAME for the poor inner city kids stuck in an endless cycle of frustration and despair?

Can YOU explain why Obama refuses to reform Social Security to give beneficiaries a CHOICE to utilize the advanced retirement vehicles that the rich use instead of throwing 12 cents out of every dollar they earn into a system that is MATHEMATICALLY DOOMED TO FAIL?

Can YOU explain why Obama insists to strangling the wealth-creating sectors of our economy when he blabbered his catastrophic plan to impede the exact same forces that make college loans possible, that make mortgage loans possible, that attract foreign investment and maintains the RETIREMENT PENSIONS of every institution in the country?

Can YOU explain any __FACTUAL__ and __EMPIRICAL__ source for YOUR belief that Obama has ever displayed the integrity and steel to fight for YOUR issues? Not my issues, YOURS. He spent his years REFUSING to take a stance on things as critical as whether or not doctors should be able to kill babies that survive abortion. How fucking hard is that to do? But NOOOOOO Obama decided that it wasn't worth his political capital to take a stance for the people of Illinois.

What EXACTLY is it that makes you think he'll do any different for the rest of the country?

Can YOU explain why McCain backed the Iraq war that has had a far greater impact on our country then anything you just listed? I'm curious as to your explanation as to why McCain backed the Iraq war which fucked our country over and has killed thousands of our troops? This doesn't bother you at all even though it had a far greater impact then anything you have posted in all 259 pages of this thread?

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Soriak

Let's not forget what question lead to the Republican outburst: Campbell Brown wanted to know what exactly Palin's experience is. Commander of the national guard came up and she wanted to know an example of a decision she made in that capability.

I have two take-aways from that video (1) there are too many people named 'Tucker' in this world; (2) that particular Tucker didn't know jack about Palin because (3) Palin actually has made decisions with respect to the Alaskan National Guard. Not particularly earthshattering decisions because not much has really happened up there in the past two years, but actual, for realz, decisions. Oh wait that was three take-aways -- but the third came from googling not the video.

www.kansascity.com | 09/03/2008 | Palin hasn't ordered Alaska National Guard to do anything
Alaska Governor Sarah Palin
http://gov.state.ak.us/omb/09_omb/bu...MVA/rdu131.pdf

(1) Sent a Cargo Plane to help with Gustav
(2) Authorized the commander to make a lot of minor decisions where a quick response is needed (and oh yes that is a 'decisions with respect to the ANG').
(3) Prepared and signed the fucking budget (well the Alaskan part anyway).

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Mippo

Sarah Palin got her approval rating by doing the same bullshit strategy that Bush did. She's giving money back to the people of Alaska. The problem is, just like Bush, she left the debt for someone else to handle and people are too stupid to realize it. The majority of our country doesn't know anything about basic finance, it's quite sad really.

Wrong. Sarah Palin got her approval rating by DISMANTLING THE WHOLE REPUBLICAN OLIGARCHY in the State's government. She has nailed more Republican nuts to the statehouse door than Obama has even DEBATED as an elected official.

here, I'll just cut and paste an older response:

Then DON'T believe it. Don't listen to the opinion and hyperbole on EITHER side. Why don't you look at the record, instead. It's easy (and let's face it, FUN) to debate based on the innuendo and between-the-shoulderblades daggerplay that both parties revel in, but you wanna "put the partisanship down for a second" then simply take a look at the facts:

BEFORE she was even in any political office, Sarah Palin had made some kind of freaky mission out of calling out and tackling corruption in government. I don't know if you've been to Alaska (the oil pipeline was maintained by my old employer so I've been there way more than I liked) but the people who actually live there voluntarily are---well---different.

They're like paleo-Americans, some kind of wild-west museum exhibit that escaped into modern life. You hear about how the pioneers on the Oregon trail must've been some kind of homespun supermen, then you meet rural Alaskans and realize that there's a reason how such people marched from sea to shining sea with their lives in a wagon and children in their arms and destroyed whatever opposition happened to be in the way: they fear absolutely nothing.

The fact that Sarah Palin was born to these people (and married a Yupik Eskimo to boot) goes a long explaining why the hell she thought she could get away with what she DID get away with. And she got away with dismantling a decades-old "old-boy" political network from her hometown of Wasilla, to the main Government Energy Commission in the state, all the way to her Governorship.

She started her political career by unseating a corrupt mayor and CUT her salary by 60%, cut property taxes by 40% as she had promised in her campaign.

She was then appointed (by state Republicans) to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission wherein she refused to play by the script that the Republicans who appointed her expected her to play. They may have thought she was just another ditzy beauty queen with more ambition than decency. Or maybe they just thought she understood that that was how the Alaskan public oil regime worked. Either way, they were wrong and what they actually got was the woman who REFUSED to take part in their corruption, resigned in protest, then promptly sued and pursued the corrupt Republicans out of their jobs.

"Oh but Khorum, those were just minor nobody Republicans, they couldn't have harmed her!" Wrong, they were the Alaska RNC Chief Randy Ruedrich and Republican Attorney General Gregg Renkes. But in case you feel like imagining that Palin would escape by switching to the Democrats, she implicated them too.

But the AOGCC was still in the grip of multinational corporate interests (not to name names but it starts with E and ends with xxon-Mobil), Palin decided to Challenge the powerful Republican Governor Frank Murkowski (who had APPOINTED his daughter Lisa Murkowski to replace him in the Senate when he decided he wanted to be governor. I shit you not). She won the governorship in the Republican _PRIMARY_, unseating the patriarch of the most connected political dynasty in the state's history.

"But but Khorum, it's about EXPERIENCE reforming the largest corporate entities in human history, not, um, being pretty." As soon as she took office Sarah Palin enacted some of the most dramatic ethics and regulatory reforms in State and US history. She created a cabinet-level authority whose sole mission is to control greenhouse gas emissions by Alaska's substantial gas industry. Against the loud and obvious protest by some of the most powerful corporate interests the world has EVER seen. She then promoted and signed the Alaska Gas Inducement Act against the wishes of BP (her husband's bosses!) and then allowed contractor bidding to award the contract to a CANADIAN company to save the State's taxpayer dollars. As part of the deal TransCanada would build the gas pipeline from Alaska to the 48 states and develop roads, rail and housing communities for indigenous Alaskans along the way!

Then she sued George Bush for being an asshat and trying to kiss ass with an environmental lobby who somehow missed the fact that the Polar Bear population was in a boom and that their entry as an endangered species would bar Alaska from utilizing its resources for generations to come.

Sarah Palin got that approval rating because the DEMOCRATS adore her for demolishing the corrupt Republican Oligarchy and Republicans love her for... well... for demolishing the corrupt Republican Oligarchy.

[Soriak]

All those uninformed idiots watching the daily show...
CNN.com - 'Daily Show' viewers ace political quiz - Sep 29, 2004

While viewers of NBC's "The Tonight Show" and CBS's "The Late Show" scored better than the general public, Stewart's fans came out on top.

Leno and Letterman viewers scored 49 percent on the quiz. But "Daily Show" viewers scored 60 percent on average.

Scores were even lower for those who read a newspaper or watch network news four days a week. ...

"Daily Show" viewers are 78 percent more likely than the average adult to have four or more years of college education, while O'Reilly's audience is only 24 percent more likely to have that much schooling.

Plus, the network noted, "Daily Show" viewers are 26 percent more likely to have a household income more than $100,000, while O'Reilly's audience is only 11 percent more likely to make that much money.

So the guy watching Stewart may not only be smart, but may also be rich.

I don't know how exactly it's biased to show a clip of Karl Rove saying one thing, then another one from a few weeks later where he says the complete opposite. Or with McCain saying he was against a tax cut, then a few months later saying he never opposed it.

In an attempt to be balanced, the media accused Obama of changing his view on Iraq, which he never did. You can dig back as far as you want, he always said he would take into account the views of military leaders.

It's entirely dishonest to claim this as being essentially the same.

[emoo]

Originally Posted by tad10

There's nothing wrong with being partisan. The problem comes when someone or something (e.g. the NY Times, The Daily Show) pretends to be nonpartisan but really isn't.

When did The Daily Show pretend to be nonpartisan?
And fuck the NY times.

[earthfell]

Originally Posted by tad10

(3) Prepared and signed the fucking budget (well the Alaskan part anyway).

So if she put a town of 9,000 into $22,000,000.00 in debt, I wonder what she did to a state of half a million!!

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Mippo

Can YOU explain why McCain backed the Iraq war that has had a far greater impact on our country then anything you just listed? I'm curious as to your explanation as to why McCain backed the Iraq war which fucked our country over and has killed thousands of our troops? This doesn't bother you at all even though it had a far greater impact then anything you have posted in all 259 pages of this thread?

A better question is why the Democrats have flip flopped, lied, and played political games with the safety of the country. Obama is excused because he has no experience and was busy with Rezko, Wright, and community organizing when the Iraq War began.

Sadly, most are like Obama, clueless of the past and what was decided.

YouTube - Democrats on Iraq + WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction)

[Manseed]

Originally Posted by Jedite

Its not even that we expect her to fail.. We need to know her credentials in an unscripted, unrehersed interview were she has to think fast on her feet, and answer from within and not from some script

I agree 100%. Can't wait for Obama to do this as well.

[MrSpitz]

Originally Posted by emoo

And fuck the NY times.

The NYtimes is probably one of the best starting sources of information, and this is coming from a baby-eating conservative like myself.

[Jedite]

Originally Posted by Manseed

I agree 100%. Can't wait for Obama to do this as well.

I guess you missed obama on O'reilly or how about on one of the mornings talk shows today?

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Mippo

Can YOU explain why McCain backed the Iraq war that has had a far greater impact on our country then anything you just listed? I'm curious as to your explanation as to why McCain backed the Iraq war which fucked our country over and has killed thousands of our troops? This doesn't bother you at all even though it had a far greater impact then anything you have posted in all 259 pages of this thread?

LOL 259 pages? I've been supporting the moral and philosophical imperative for the war for far, far longer than the 259 pages of this thread.

Here, ANOTHER cut and paste:

PALIN had publicly rejected the anti-semitic message of a visiting JEWISH speaker at her church, but she celebrates her spirituality in the same way that our constitution guarantees her the right to. Her words and beliefs are between herself and her God, but we can judge her by the quality of her actions.

And her actions are about as "ultraconservative" as Nixon's was when, like Nixon did with the EPA, Palin enacted a cabinet-level authority to oversee and police the greenhouse gas emissions and other climate-change challenges of Alaska. Her actions show us a Governor who vowed not to promote any new anti-abortion measures into law. Her actions show a governor whose VERY FIRST VETO was used to protect the benefits and rights of homosexual workers in her state.

Can you say the same about Obama? Who REFUSED to take a principled stance on whether fetuses who survive abortion attempts should be kept alive? Who REFUSED to vote against protecting schools from the sex industry? Who REFUSED to vote for keeping the identities and private records of the victims of pedophiles from being exposed to public scrutiny?

Palin and McCain have not ONLY promised to do what is right in Iraq, but they have backed it up with their own blood. Palin has a son headed to Iraq and McCain has TWO sons who serve in the military.

Regardless of what promises they may or may have not made, the truth is that we have liberated one of the most persecuted peoples in modern history, 25 million people who had the ancient ancestral lands they had lived in since the reign of Hammurabi STOLEN from them by the greedy victors of the first world war. The Kurds have built a ROBUST democracy and a vibrant booming economy and have now expressed their gratitude to the American people in no uncertain terms:

Even as Obama makes a fool of himself claiming that there remains a lack of Political "Reconciliation" in Iraq, the radical arch-shiite Moqtada Al Sadr ordered his 60,000 troops to disarm and has ordered the disarmed militia fighters into working alongside Sunni, Kurd and American forces in 34 construction projects in Sadr City as social services.

Obama sat there with O'Reilly and with a STRAIGHT FACE claimed that "We haven't seen any political reconciliation" in the same week that US troops officially returns control of Al Anbar province---once the capital of Al Qaeda---back to the Iraqi government. He sat there and pretended that there was "no political reconciliation" when The Sunni Insurgents have thronged into the Iraqi political scene with fervor, with former Insurgents-turned-Awakening-Leaders taking SIX cabinet posts and many seats in Parliament.

Our troops have rescued 65 million human beings from the monster who killed 1.7 million of his own people and herded the kurds into nerve-gas killzones during the Al Anfal campaign. We've brought the kurds home from their 85-year exile in the wilderness and given them a chance at living in peace finally.

And now, the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis have all come to the table to realize the FIRST genuine pluralist democracy in the Gulf's modern history. We helped bring them out from the yoke of tyranny at a tragic cost less than 1/15th of the Korean war (54k). Korea, a resource-less peninsula is now one of the most vibrant economies in the world and a staunch ally (Korean troops in Iraq have become beloved by the Iraqis and many of them have converted to Islam) because principled Americans saw fit to place their conscience ahead of their personal conveniences.

Do you imagine the Germans didn't resist American and Allied occupation after WW2?

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Jedah

Christopher Hitchens is an unapologetic neoconservative; you'd be hard pressed to find a more rabid anti-theist you blithering retard.

Please look up the definition of the word 'most.' You seem to think I wrote 'all.'

Originally Posted by emoo

I don't think I have heard anybody seriously bring up Planned Parenthood this entire election year, but I have heard "safe and legal abortion" brought up too many times to count. Give me a specific example of a large group of voters who are advocates of Planned Parenthood, specifically, and will not be satisfied with any other abortion clinic.

You realize that PP gets roughly 300 million bucks a year from the federal government and just last year republican efforts to shut that down went nowhere in the House?

I believe that anybody who sees themselves tied to any particular party, along with everybody else who sees themselves tied to that party is a fucking idiot. And I can separate myself from anybody I want, what the fuck are you talking about? If you think you can't, what the fuck is wrong with you? And what does this have to do with what you quoted?

Nope. If you're blue, you're put into the same ring as the rest of your circus troupe. Just as I've got to get into the minibus with the clowns who are shitdeep in red.

If voting fraud is a concern, lets start with the simple stuff first.

Voter ID cards = the simple stuff you fucking fuckwit.

Did my usage of the word fuck help strengthen my argument?

Fuck no.

[Chips]

GOP bounce: McCain overtakes Obama - Yahoo! News

[emoo]

Originally Posted by tad10

Voter ID cards = the simple stuff you fucking fuckwit.

Ok, and then we are still left wondering if the votes were even recorded properly. Still sounds very complicated to me.

Nope. If you're blue, you're put into the same ring as the rest of your circus troupe. Just as I've got to get into the minibus with the clowns who are shitdeep in red.

That's all in your head.

You realize that PP gets roughly 300 million bucks a year from the federal government and just last year republican efforts to shut that down went nowhere in the House?

I think I said "voters," and not "politicians." Oh, thats right, I did.