McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Szlia

About universal healthcare:
I don't know if any single country has a perfect health care system, but the current american system is such an abject clusterfuck that there should be little difficulties to wipe the slate clean and make something better after studying the pros and cons in the many countries with universal healthcare. Obviously, many of these countries manage to do that without driving the middle class into poverty, so I don't see why the US could not come up with something decent (except of course if the pharma and insurance lobbies have their say in it - there are so many people involed in the health industry that do not have to take the hyppocratic oath it's scary...).

Want to know the most hilarious thing about the current state of US healthcare?

The current system you've got costs everybody (individuals, companies, the economy as a whole) significantly more money than any socialised system, while at the same time being one of the worst in the entire First World. (Link)

The only people who think it's a Good Thing are a) the insurance companies raking in money hand-over-fist profiteering from human suffering, and b) ignorant, cowardly Republicans and their knee-jerk paranoia over socialised anything (sup Khorum?).

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

Somebody better be able to, because if we dont pull our heads from our asses and realize that everything is slipping away, and we will see it crumble in our lifetimes, then, WE, Red States and Blue States are totally and completely fucked.

Nah, it's not as bad as you think. Look at which states give money to the US Gov't (hint: Blue states) and which states take government handouts (hint: Red states). Now consider cutting the red states loose to form that third world fundamentalist Christian dictatorship all the Republicans seem to want while letting the civilised parts of the US spend their money on themselves instead of mongoloid, inbred rednecks. Sure, the Republicans would be proper fucked but it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of fascists.

[Badass]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Hey you ignorant fucking wannabe, why don't you START by not pretending that your ENTIRE line of reasoning has been shut down OVER and OVER and OVER again. Not only is McCain himself WALKING evidence of the brutal treatment he underwent as "songbird" he even admitted he broke under torture as everyone else has. Noone has EVER had the first doubt about John McCain's loyalty because he received that torture after he refused to be released __BEFORE__ any of the prisoners who had been interned before he was. Everyone has heard the POW stories and groaned at their repetition but YOU seem determined to keep bringing it up.

We have ALL seen the Navy's forensic evidence on the circumstances and outcome of the Forrestal incident. And everyone has been treated to eyewitness account to eyewitness account of a stray static charge launching a Zuni rocket __INTO__ John McCain's skyhawk.

You're quite possibly the ONLY retard who hasn't been inundated with the testimonies and stories of McCain's heroism during the Forrestal event as told by his navy colleagues, but that's hardly surprising considering you're the EXACT SAME FUCKWIT who still believes that Cubans just fucking LOVE their communist dictatorship despite 3.4 million refugees and the Crimes Against Humanity subpoenas saying otherwise.

But is it possible you are soooo determined to outdo your unbroken world-record streams of douchebaggery? As HILARIOUS as every other attempt of yours to call anyone out has been

Apparently, yes it is!!


Because not ONLY has the CBS news 'source' and now the New York Times already published an official retraction of that story. But now VIDEO EVIDENCE of Sarah Palin addressing the AIP as her competition has left even the Daily KOS brownshirts red-faced and mum.

But not you, you're a SPECIAL brand of idiot who's been proven wrong on EVERY attempt at wit and profundity but yet keeps on repeating the exact same bullshit even though the whole fucking WORLD now knows you're full of shit.

But it's not the fact that McCain's and Palin's are solid and actually REAL that seals the deal, it's the fact that Obama's 17-year history of graft and corruption can't even BEGIN to compare with EITHER of their histories even in the worst cases.

After all did anyone have to TORTURE Obama when he befriended a terrorist who bombed the pentagon and his wife who ran the terrorist Organization that murdered policemen? Was Obama strapped to a table and mercilessly beaten before he was treated to a lavish dinner to launch his career in the homes of the same terrorists who declared war on America?

Were Obama's arms broken to induce him to serve as a director on the board of the Wood Fund, a foundation founded by Rashid Khalidi an open supporter of Palestinian Terrorists? Did anyone have to cage Obama in solitary confinement in order to get him to join into multimillion-dollar real-estate connections with a man who was convicted in France for corruption and was even convicted in Iraq as Saddam Hussein's accomplice?

Oh wait, maybe Obama's WIFE had hardcore connections with secessionists instead? Was it Michell Obama who FORCED Obama to hire two high-ranking Farrakhan followers to serve as his Treasurer and Director of Constituent Affairs? Was it Michelle Obama's mistake that led Obama to work so closely with that hate group that is SOOO vicious and reviled that they remained banned from entering BRITAIN to this day?

And now you think you have the FIRST FUCKING CLUE when you're talking about economics and tax policy right? Christ if you're serious about wanting to hear where Obama's policies will do more harm, try dropping that "LOLVIPPOKERBADASS" faggotry since noone's under the impression you've ever known what you were talking about anyway.

How do you keep posting here? How many times can you have your teeth kicked in you walking piece of corporate trash. How do you live with yourself knowing that everything you say is spin and propaganda shat from the mouth in order for you to make more money from.....Bechtel. Drill baby drill? You have an oil pipelline running directly from George Bush's ass to your mouth.

Is Sarah Pulin's husband a member of the AIP????? He is. Why arent you arguing that the AIP is not secessionist any longer? What happened to your brilliant argument that the AIP is misunderstood and only seeks the right to be free of U.S. laws against natural exploitation? Hey, but maybe she totally disagrees with the AIP - although her husband is a party member and the leaders of the AIP said she was a supporter. Did she or did she not tell the AIP 3 months ago: "keep up the good work" and that she "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.'" Maybe she will stand up to Big Oil. LOL. Or maybe her inauguration was sponsored by....BP.

Maybe Americans are still willing to trust radicals like you.

Maybe she actually supported that bridge to nowhere she claims she said "no thanks" too. Facts are irrelevant to you though.

Maybe John McCain wasnt one of the Keating Five. Maybe not.

Are you admitting that John McCain gave up U.S national secrets to the vietnamese and was codenamed "songbird"? Sounds like you are. The Forrestal argument remains and is every bit as valid as the argument you made against John Kerry with your swiftboat campaign. McCain wetstarted his jet trying to show off causing a fireball to fire from his jet and launch a zuni rocket in the plane behind him into his own jet. McCain panicked and dropped ordinance onto the deck and started the disaster. His family covered for him - plain and simple.

Who tortured George Bush to turn Guantanamo Bay into a torture facility? You agree with that though dont you Khorum.

Are you still going to argue that the Iraq war was worth it because we found "WMD" and because we freed the kurds? Silly fuck. I got the bat ready....AGAIN if you want to bring your weak neo-con bullshit.

What about McCain not knowing the difference between Sunni and Shia? Brilliant isnt he?

If you want to talk about terrorists, lets talk about the terrorists who actually attacked the U.S and killed over 2000 Americans on Sept. 11? Where is Bin Laden and AZ? You ferocious crusaders against terrorism havent caught or killed either fucking one of them despite starting two wars which are ongoing and cost us over 10 billion a month. Brilliant.

Meawhile Musharraf used your feeble infantile neocon minds to cajole you out of millions in defense funding while bullying you into accepting the fact that the worlds most dangerous terrorists sit in caves in .... Pakistan. Pussies.

I can't let you forget that North Korea detonated a nuclear weapon during George Bush's presidency. Nice job. Nice strategy. Brilliant.

Fuck the Europeans and the rest of the ENTIRE WORLD - they are idiots and dont know what is good for them. Hillbilly's from WASILLA, ALASKA have the answer. Palin has plenty of foreign policy experience being so close geographically to Russia, doesnt she Khorum? Besides, who could question her military command experience through her brilliant military planning in utilizing Alaska's national guard to shovel moose shit.

Atleast, Bush and McCain wont restart the cold war with Russia..... wait.

Atleast, Bush and McCain have made great strides in scaling back stockpiles of nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons testing.......wait.

Why dont you start telling us exactly what the fuck you have done in the past 8 years that has improved the United States of America? Are you not, quite literally, promising more of the same? What is your plan for the next 4 years? What are the specifics - besides drill baby drill?

You are not intelligent enough to accomplish anything positive..and you know it.

USA USA USA USA USA!

[MrSpitz]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Want to know the most hilarious thing about the current state of US healthcare?

The current system you've got costs everybody (individuals, companies, the economy as a whole) significantly more money than any socialised system, while at the same time being one of the worst in the entire First World. (Link)

The only people who think it's a Good Thing are a) the insurance companies raking in money hand-over-fist profiteering from human suffering, and b) ignorant, cowardly Republicans and their knee-jerk paranoia over socialised anything (sup Khorum?).

If you're going to post sources, don't post one whose stated mission goal 2 years ago was solely to socialize healthcare. The commonwealth fund is a special interest group only for this purpose.

Heres an exerpt from your article:
"Other countries are further along than the U.S. in using information technology and a team approach to manage chronic conditions and coordinate care. Information systems in countries like Germany, New Zealand, and the U.K. enhance the ability of physicians to identify and monitor patients with chronic conditions. Such systems also make it easy for physicians to print out medication lists, including those prescribed by other physicians. Nurses help patients manage their chronic diseases, with those services financed by governmental programs."


Information technology is a great point. But that's not socialized vs private, that is HIPPA.

I must concede that nurses don't help patients manage chronic diseases, like diabetes, in the United States. Great point, our nurses just stand around and wait to get boned by doctors.


The main problem is that we have universal healthcare now without having universal healthcare. What happens is people who don't have insurance stay out of the healthcare system, but then once they get really sick they walk into a hospital and are gauranteed treatment. If they need followup, they just go back and by law cannot be denied. If a smarter version of Medicaid was extended to all uninsured this could actually save costs, but Medicaid is so fucked up. Medicaid is awful about preventitive treatment (they won't cover treatment for some kidney diseases, but then will pay for a lifetime of dialysis once the kidneys fail.... smart) and primary physician reimbursements. It give's such little money back to a personal physician for a visit that most refuse to accept it, and those who do lose money on every medicaid patient they see. In fact if you look at the OECD data, primary physician salaries in the US have been falling, while the UK almost doubled primary physician salary since 1998 when it was like $64,000 annually (exchange rate adjusted, not inflation adjusted).

A limited program could be beneficial, but the current reimbursement rates of what we do have is not sustainable within the system. Hence we either need a full overhaul to where the government pays for medical education, limits the amount of lawsuits and potential damages, and dictates what is or is not covered or to upgrade Medicaid and keep it small. I do not trust our government, whoever wins, to setup a radically new health care system. Neither candidate seems to have a grasp of where costs are actually coming from.

[Vandyn]

I'm a registered Democrat so I will probably vote Obama although I'm not so far left to not realize that my candidate brings up serious questions. I do question his partisianship as well as his general short time in the Senate. I don't know what it is, I want to be behind him 100% but something just bothers me. Maybe it's this whole 'celebrity' status that he has. It makes him seem as someone who I don't identify with.

One thing to keep in mind about republicans, they can rally the base better than the Democrats could ever hope to, bringing people out of the woodwork to vote for their guy. The last two elections should be an indicator of that.

[TheMarauder]

Here's an e-mail I got about Palin... I did some research on it and it is true, the writer is from Alaska and knows her personally. It's long so I spoiler'ed it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

ABOUT SARAH PALIN

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the residents of the city.

She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe".

It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.

She is "pro-life". She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.

She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.

She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.

Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin’s kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.

Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.

She's smart.

Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents.

During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece of property that the City didn't even have clear title to, that was still in litigation 7 yrs later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.

These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.

As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.

In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.

She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal — loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State's top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's Police Chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn’t like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.

Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.

When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club" when she dramatically quit, exposing this man’s ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.

As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects — which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance — but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork."

She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.

Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.

As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State’s lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as threatened species.

McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being President.

There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she.

However, there's a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.

CLAIM VS FACT o "Hockey mom": true for a few years
o "PTA mom": true years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
p "NRA supporter": absolutely true
o social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
o pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.
o "Pro-life": mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation.
o "Experienced": Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska.
No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
o political maverick: not at all
o gutsy: absolutely!
o open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
o has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
o "a Greenie": no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
o fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
o pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
o pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents.
o pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla’s history.
o pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn't make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

WHY AM I WRITING THIS?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny + Alaska), you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.

Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "Bad things happen when good people stay silent". Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.

Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that’s life.

Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah's attempt at censorship.

Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.

CAVEATS

I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor) from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall — they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.

You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000. The day Palin’s selection was announced a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90’s.

Anne Kilkenny
August 31, 2008

[aychamo_aycono]

I bet if there was no such thing as political parties probably 85% of the population would be for McCain/Palin. They are a powerhouse duo of awesomeness.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by aychamo_aycono

I bet if there was no such thing as political parties probably 85% of the population would be for McCain/Palin. They are a powerhouse duo of awesomeness.

I dunno if it would be that high, but the point is valid. So many people vote for the party and not the individual.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by aychamo_aycono

I bet if there was no such thing as political parties probably 85% of the population would be for McCain/Palin. They are a powerhouse duo of awesomeness.

They are a powerhouse in a way. They are very good at captivating dumbfucks and convincing them they stand for the opposite of what they've actually been doing. Palin, barely running a small town (she needed to hire someone else to do her work running a town of 9k) and increasing it's govt budget and size massively (according to most sources the biggest increase ever for the town) is an experienced fiscal conservative.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Want to know the most hilarious thing about the current state of US healthcare?

The current system you've got costs everybody (individuals, companies, the economy as a whole) significantly more money than any socialised system, while at the same time being one of the worst in the entire First World. (Link)

The only people who think it's a Good Thing are a) the insurance companies raking in money hand-over-fist profiteering from human suffering, and b) ignorant, cowardly Republicans and their knee-jerk paranoia over socialised anything (sup Khorum?).

You forgot the people making the most money: The malpractice lawyers, who own the DNC.

Fortunately, they don't just chase ambulances, they welcomely sue anyone for anything.

You won't hear the Dems ever discuss the costs of lawyers, or the judicial problems facing the country. They are too busy deceptively trying to tax the wealthy, even though 75% of those taxes are going to rake Small Business across the coals and hurt the main source of growth in our country.

Meanwhile, you want to elect someone who is promising 'reform' while his main constituency are the people who are truly raking the American public across the coals.

Did we mention both Obama and Biden, with zero military experience are both lawyers? They might not be able to the difference between a brigade or a batallion, but they'll ensure those suicide bombers in Afghanistan get Habeus Corpus!

It's like saying the streets are responsible for all the car accidents, so let's add more potholes and put faster cars on the roads! That'll fix it!

[Badass]

Originally Posted by aychamo_aycono

I bet if there was no such thing as political parties probably 85% of the population would be for McCain/Palin. They are a powerhouse duo of awesomeness.

No. But 85% of your church and 85% of uneducated red staters would. I bet if there was no such thing as political parties Obama/Biden would get 97% of the vote from people with college degrees. You know....the intellectuals, erudite, UPPITY, know it alls that republicans so despise. What are you guys trying to bring us back to the dark ages? Burn some books? Tell librarians that they cant provide certain books? Oh wait, yes your hillbilly idol actually does believe in BANNING BOOKS.

[Tolanin]

Originally Posted by Badass

No. But 85% of your church and 85% of uneducated red staters would. I bet if there was no such thing as political parties Obama/Biden would get 97% of the vote from people with college degrees. You know....the intellectuals, erudite, UPPITY, know it alls that republicans so despise. What are you guys trying to bring us back to the dark ages? Burn some books? Tell librarians that they cant provide certain books? Oh wait, yes your hillbilly idol actually does believe in BANNING BOOKS.

do you live in a fantasy world? Since when have most college grads voted democrat? I think you got your party and tickets mixed up.. or maybe you didn't mean to say college grads but rather meant cloistered academics who entered the university system at 18 and never left?

[Zulutu]

Probably a re-post, but funny IMHO:
"Palin church wants to 'pray away the gay'."
CANOE -- CNEWS - U.S. Election: Palin church wants to 'pray away the gay'

[Badass]

Originally Posted by Tolanin

do you live in a fantasy world? Since when have most college grads voted democrat? I think you got your party and tickets mixed up.. or maybe you didn't mean to say college grads but rather meant cloistered academics who entered the university system at 18 and never left?

Look at that post-graduate education gap.

I appreciate you attempting to call me out on the facts. Will you please provide some evidence to support the initial query that McCain/Palain would get 95 of the vote absent political parties because "They are a powerhouse duo of awesomeness."

[Malakriss]

If the sun was red and twizzlers were never invented, Guiliani would be our President. Yeah, let's not waste time arguing about impossible scenarios, no?

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Aychamo is a poor troll when it comes to politics. "They are badass." Really? How so? Is being "badass" enough to be President? How do you reconcile your anti-religion stance with the Religious Right, Aychamo? You'd openly vote with your penis instead of with your head?