McCain/Palin v. Obama/Biden

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Looks like the convention was a success.


38 Million View Obama’s Speech; Highest-Rated Convention In History

Barack Obama accepted the Democratic nomination for president on Thursday as an estimated 38 million viewers watched on television, setting a new record for convention viewership, according to Nielsen Media Research.

I hope just as many get to see Bush and Cheney speak on Monday. The Bush speech will be solid gold for Obama.

[Craelin]

After watching Obama's speech last night, the point that's really sticking in my head is the insurance company one: insurance companies will no longer be allowed to discriminate against people who are sick/injured.

This makes me think he is simply trying to buy votes with ideals, rather than sound judgment. If insurance companies are forced to offer the same plans/price to the healthy and the ill, (a losing situation for them) they simply won't offer plans at all. I don't understand why he expects businesses to go along with something that will directly hurt their performance; "Doesn't matter if you have cancer and $75,000 in bills and more to come, we'll insure you even though you're only paying $500 a month."

I was watching the speech with a friend who works in commercial insurance, and when Obama said this she dropped her mouth in disbelief. Economy is going to take a rough shot from that one.

[TheMarauder]

Originally Posted by gnomad

That is NOT the governments job and I challenge you to show me in the US Constitution where it is defined that it is.

So base our government's entire structure and direction on a 220 year old document? Americans back then did not even have the same problems they have today. In fact, we went against the document in just seven years, with the Eleventh Amendment.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Craelin

Healthcare.

All that health care talk is BS. He had to put that in his platform because of Hillary. If he gets elected you will not hear anything else about it. That is just politics.

[owakefka]

Originally Posted by Craelin

After watching Obama's speech last night, the point that's really sticking in my head is the insurance company one: insurance companies will no longer be allowed to discriminate against people who are sick/injured.

This makes me think he is simply trying to buy votes with ideals, rather than sound judgment. If insurance companies are forced to offer the same plans/price to the healthy and the ill, (a losing situation for them) they simply won't offer plans at all. I don't understand why he expects businesses to go along with something that will directly hurt their performance; "Doesn't matter if you have cancer and $75,000 in bills and more to come, we'll insure you even though you're only paying $500 a month."

I was watching the speech with a friend who works in commercial insurance, and when Obama said this she dropped her mouth in disbelief. Economy is going to take a rough shot from that one.

Government running Health Insurance works in other countries (which by the way most of these countries have a higher population of healthy people) so why wouldn't it work in ours?

Health Insurance is already bad is, talk to your doctors they will tell you it's bad and they are beginning to refuse patients depending on what insurance company they have.

[Jedah]

Originally Posted by gnomad

Wrong, but nice try.

Go read Hamilton's Federalist Papers, the minutes of the Constituntional Congress, etc. and find where that is the meaning.

You won't find it. The General Welfare did not mean a welfare state as we know it today.

Our modern economic situation is nothing like they envisioned. I wouldn't put any unqualified importance on their understandings of the relations between government and economy.

EDIT: This is, easily, the fastest I've ever gone from 0 to stupid, foaming at the mouth all the way. I'm a developmentalist if anything, so I was a fool to play a textualist or constructionist game.

[ziggyholiday]

Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch

All that health care talk is BS. He had to put that in his platform because of Hillary. If he gets elected you will not hear anything else about it. That is just politics.

Same can be said with all of his talking points, McCain's as well...any and every fucking politican. There won't be any "change". Saddly I feel like it's more of a vote for who I think will fuck things up less.

[Frax]

Originally Posted by dioblaire

just to finally settle the argument as to what obama said with the whole boot strap thing...

"For over two decades, he's subscribed to that old, discredited Republican philosophy -- give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else. In Washington, they call this the Ownership Society, but what it really means is that you're on your own. Out of work? Tough luck. You're on your own. No health care? The market will fix it. You're on your own. Born into poverty? Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps -- even if you don't have boots. You are on your own."

dammit.: Obama's Acceptance Speech

The United States of America was not founded to be a welfare/socialist state.
The founding fathers didn't sit around moaning about the british empire not putting them on the dole so they could afford their MD 20/20.

on topic: McCain made a brilliant move with this choice. Real voters with real concerns are going to see a war hero & lifetime public servant combined with a middle class mom. I see very little that democrats can legitimately challenge her on. Five kids. One with Downs. One in the military and on his way to Iraq. A working stiff union member husband. And she is no dummy, not by a long shot. This is going to become more and more apparent as we get closer to the election. She is the only true change of the four people involved in this election.

Hillary voters are going to see the establishment (Biden) attacking a strong woman on TV and have doubts about their support for Obama. Very, very shrewd move.

[TheMarauder]

Originally Posted by Frax

I see very little that democrats can legitimately challenge her on. Five kids. One with Downs. One in the military and on his way to Iraq. A working stiff union member husband. And she is no dummy, not by a long shot.

Yes but the people who are actually involved in the politics will tear her apart. She brings nothing new in politics to the table. And regarding 'change', she will take a backseat while McCain continues Bush's blueprint for America.

edit: You've got a point on the Biden thing though. Hillary supporters are really starting to lose their sight, hopefully she will enlighten them once again when she calls out Palin.

[Fury]

Originally Posted by ziggyholiday

Sadly I feel like it's more of a vote for who I think will fuck things up less.

We have a winner!

[Frax]

Originally Posted by TheMarauder

Yes but the people who are actually involved in the politics will tear her apart. She brings nothing new in politics to the table. And regarding 'change', she will take a backseat while McCain continues Bush's blueprint for America.

And what does the opposition bring? The same tired promises that the lefties failed to deliver on from 1993-2000? She brings a lot, to include actually being a living, breathing middle class citizen. Nothing that the other folks can state they have experienced in the last twenty years...

[Morphyous]

VPilf.com

Damn people make sites so fast.

[whatsamattau]

Originally Posted by Frax

The United States of America was not founded to be a welfare/socialist state.
The founding fathers didn't sit around moaning about the british empire not putting them on the dole so they could afford their MD 20/20.

on topic: McCain made a brilliant move with this choice. Real voters with real concerns are going to see a war hero & lifetime public servant combined with a middle class mom. I see very little that democrats can legitimately challenge her on. Five kids. One with Downs. One in the military and on his way to Iraq. A working stiff union member husband. And she is no dummy, not by a long shot. This is going to become more and more apparent as we get closer to the election. She is the only true change of the four people involved in this election.

Hillary voters are going to see the establishment (Biden) attacking a strong woman on TV and have doubts about their support for Obama. Very, very shrewd move.

Except that the majority of her political career was spent as the mayor of a town of 9K, and she has zero foreign policy experience. She's never spoken to a world leader outside of Dubyah. She's in the pockets of big oil. and on and on.

But what you miss is that the democrats don't have to "hit" her on anything. Incase you missed it, the Democrats are winning. It's the Republicans who have to strike, as they've been doing for months now while Team Obama laughs at them (tire gauges anyone?) She won't be seen as an assett on any policy matter. She's really just a pretty face.

Will a pretty face win an election? I dunno. That is essentially what the republicans have been crying about with regards to Obama the entire time. Now that the shoe is on the other foot you all of the sudden find that characteristic 'Very, very shrewd."

Laughable, imho.

[Sunder]

What is amazing to me is now that McCain has basically picked a white female version of Obama when it comes to experience and foreign policy, the biggest flip-flop of this entire election comes from the conservatives. Sweet, sweet irony.

[Malice]

Originally Posted by Morphyous

VPilf.com

Damn people make sites so fast.

Yeah, it was posted on page 1.