Fucking Bush /puts hand on forehead

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Havelock

Ok, you're one of those "Bush was behind 9/11" guys. Have fun at the Ventura compound.

Except i'm not , i just said a U.S. president couldn't launch a full scale invasion without an attack of at least that magnitude. You were harping on about Clinton not doing much when Bush did nothing before 9/11. Clinton was at least actively paying attention and monitoring terrorist activities. The Bush administration brushed it off to the side.

I like how you idiots go from me saying he couldn't go to war without 9/11 to him causing 9/11.

[dak]

"So if Bush was behind 9/11 you'd have to actually assume that him and his administration were competent enough to pull of one of the biggest coverups in history....SUCCESSFULLY....but completely incompetent in literally every other category."

If it was competently covered up you wouldn't have spent over a half decade having this discussion with people. You kinda negate your own argument there.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by dak

If it was competently covered up you wouldn't be having the discussion with the person in the first place. You kinda negate your own argument there.

nah. theres always going to be people who think of wild ideas. the fact that no evidence of a conspiracy has come out either by someone squealing or documentation indicates a success.

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Etoille

nah. theres always going to be people who think of wild ideas. the fact that no evidence of a conspiracy has come out either by someone squealing or documentation indicates a success.

OMFG did you not see the video of a missile hitting the Pentagon?!?!?! I couldn't have been an airliner.

AND OMFG the WTC steel wouldn't melt from gasoline!!!! It shouldn't collapse!

[Astrocreep]

Originally Posted by Kaio

Except i'm not , i just said a U.S. president couldn't launch a full scale invasion without an attack of at least that magnitude. You were harping on about Clinton not doing much when Bush did nothing before 9/11. Clinton was at least actively paying attention and monitoring terrorist activities. The Bush administration brushed it off to the side.

I like how you idiots go from me saying he couldn't go to war without 9/11 to him causing 9/11.

clinton allowed the first wtc attack. did nothing about it, he knew osama was behind it and even though he had several chances to bring him in chose to do nothing. the USS cole was bombed and clinton was too busy overseeing his blowjob habits than actually taking out those involved. dont try to pass off that piece of shit clinton as some kind of saint becuase he isnt. GWB is by no means perfect either, but at least he stuck to his decisions and did what he promised, by keeping america safe for his presidency.

[Scientologist]

Yeah because George Bush is THE reason America is safe.

[Castigator]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

clinton allowed the first wtc attack. did nothing about it, he knew osama was behind it and even though he had several chances to bring him in chose to do nothing. the USS cole was bombed and clinton was too busy overseeing his blowjob habits than actually taking out those involved. dont try to pass off that piece of shit clinton as some kind of saint becuase he isnt. GWB is by no means perfect either, but at least he stuck to his decisions and did what he promised, by keeping america safe for his presidency.

Don't see your point.

The Clinton administration was actively hunting Bin Laden. They just didn't come up with the idea to start harebrained wars out nowhere in order to catch a criminal.

And as for the outcome, neither Clinton nor Bush caught Bin Laden, and as national security goes, both took a hit to the WTC. So square there.. expect that Bush slaughtered millions of innocents and Bill got blowjobs. I take Bill any day.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

GWB is by no means perfect either, but at least he stuck to his decisions and did what he promised, by keeping america safe for his presidency.

Remind me again who was in office when the twin towers went down. You fucking retard.

[Havelock]

Originally Posted by Sunder

Remind me again who was in office when the twin towers went down. You fucking retard.

We got attacked once on Bush's watch and he responded in a convincing manner. Not an entirely competent manner, but nobody waltzed around thinking they could hit the U.S. with impunity. Compare that with the repeated and effectively unanswered attacks during Clinton's watch. It was Clinton's failure to respond in force that led al Qaeda to believe they could get away with a massive attack on the United States.

Originally Posted by Castigator

he Clinton administration was actively hunting Bin Laden. They just didn't come up with the idea to start harebrained wars out nowhere in order to catch a criminal.

And as for the outcome, neither Clinton nor Bush caught Bin Laden, and as national security goes, both took a hit to the WTC. So square there.. expect that Bush slaughtered millions of innocents and Bill got blowjobs. I take Bill any day.

Bush isn't responsible for the deaths of millions. And remember all the hundreds of thousands of people who died as a result of Clinton's sanctions against Iraq? Your post reflects the underlying stupidity of the Clinton strategy - you think it's all about catching a criminal. It's not. Bin Laden was indicted over 10 years ago - the justice system's not the appropriate way to respond. Clinton had intel on bin Laden's location and considered blowing the place up, but (despite the best efforts of Al Gore to convince him otherwise) did not do so.

Your flip and facile arguments bely an underlying ignorance that should give you pause before you think about sitting at the big kids' table.

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

and clinton was too busy overseeing his blowjob habits than actually taking out those involved.

he didn't choose to spend all his time dealing with the blowjob scandal. All the right wing nutjobs, and the entire republican party got a fucking hard on and had him impeached.

He couldn't deal with normal presidential responsibilities because they were keeping him busy 24/7. Not to mention what they impeached him over is minor in comparison to the shit the Bush administration has pulled.

Originally Posted by Havelock

We got attacked once on Bush's watch and he responded in a convincing manner. Not an entirely competent manner, but nobody waltzed around thinking they could hit the U.S. with impunity.

No he showed them they could attack and and we'd declare war on an UNRELATED nation. That really got the fucking message across. And we didn't get attacked once. We are attacked daily in Iraq by terrorists. Why fly all the way to the US to attack us when we have people in their back yard.

Bush isn't responsible for the deaths of millions. And remember all the hundreds of thousands of people who died as a result of Clinton's sanctions against Iraq?

So going to war with a nation hasn't caused as many deaths as putting sanctions on that country?? RIGHT.

you think it's all about catching a criminal. It's not. Bin Laden was indicted over 10 years ago - the justice system's not the appropriate way to respond. Clinton had intel on bin Laden's location and considered blowing the place up

Your post reflects the underlying stupidity of the Bush strategy, declare war on a country, Afghanistan, because its where Osama is hiding. And then when we realize all the military power in the world can't magically catch him try to shift the focus away from Osama, because its not really about him.

Bush made it clear that his goal was get Osama, when he realized he couldn't uphold that he shifted what his goal was.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by Havelock

We got attacked once on Bush's watch and he responded in a convincing manner. Not an entirely competent manner, but nobody waltzed around thinking they could hit the U.S. with impunity. Compare that with the repeated and effectively unanswered attacks during Clinton's watch. It was Clinton's failure to respond in force that led al Qaeda to believe they could get away with a massive attack on the United States.

Sweet reasoning. So the first terrorist attack on the U.S. during an Obama/McCain administration will be Bush's fault because neither of them will have had a chance to respond to any previous attacks. I love this plan.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

clinton allowed the first wtc attack. did nothing about it, he knew osama was behind it and even though he had several chances to bring him in chose to do nothing. the USS cole was bombed and clinton was too busy overseeing his blowjob habits than actually taking out those involved. dont try to pass off that piece of shit clinton as some kind of saint becuase he isnt. GWB is by no means perfect either, but at least he stuck to his decisions and did what he promised, by keeping america safe for his presidency.

1)That whole thing I said about magnitude didn't register with you at all. Comparing the 93 attacks to the 2001 attacks is laughable magnitude wise. The other attacks you mention are also far less shocking for more reasons then just that.

2)Like others have said, clinton was trying to bring Bin Laden to the forefront as we started learning about him. Back in 93 we weren't sure about the entire chain of command and we actually found/prosecuted a lot of the directly involved terrorists. You have to remember Osama doesn't mastermind shit he just runs a giant network of terrorists. The planning and execution of these attacks are done by others with Osama supporting them spiritually and monetarily.

Anyway, if not for intelligence gathering during the clinton admin, and the monitoring, we wouldn't even know it was Osama's organization that executed those attacks.

3)Also as mentioned it was the republicans that continually brushed off any foreign engagements that Clinton was involved in. In fact they attacked him for any action he took and after the Lewinsky scandal he was accused of using men like Osama as distractions.

4)Clinton's response wasn't worse then the actual attack. Bush's action has hurt us as a nation far more then Osama could in numerous fronts.
a. Financially: One of Osama's stated goals was to try to bankrupt us through a long struggle. Guess who took the bait? The damage done could quite possibly be irreparable. Time will tell.
b. Human life: We've lost many lives since our two wars have begun. If we include innocent iraq lives lost it looks horrible.
c. Internation reputation: It was ridiculously high near the Clinton years and now its' pretty fucking low. This reduces leverage greatly.

5. By your own reasoning (havelock) Bush's methods were incompetent and quite possibly ineffective. They just made people feel convinced the place is more safe. Based on the shock people felt in 9/11 one can safely assume Clinton didn't make them feel afraid either. Actually by most accounts people are more afraid of terrorism then they were in the past. So i'm not sure whom he's convinced.

6. Oh, i'm not calling Clinton perfect either, just better then Bush.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Havelock

Bush isn't responsible for the deaths of millions. And remember all the hundreds of thousands of people who died as a result of Clinton's sanctions against Iraq? Your post reflects the underlying stupidity of the Clinton strategy - you think it's all about catching a criminal. It's not. Bin Laden was indicted over 10 years ago - the justice system's not the appropriate way to respond. Clinton had intel on bin Laden's location and considered blowing the place up, but (despite the best efforts of Al Gore to convince him otherwise) did not do so.

Uh, last i checked clinton lobbed cruise missiles to some pharmaceutical company or something that Osama was apparently inside of or involved with. He had already left before the missiles hit and we aren't entirely sure if the area was innocent or not.

There was a pretty big controversy about it and Clinton got a lot of shit for doing so.

I've heard what you are saying a few times (from you probably) but i've never read any reports on it. Care to link where you are getting this from?

[Axire]

Bush is a Hero, Got to love watching the crazy stuff he gets upto! The first Negro leader of the USA has alot to live upto if he gets into office.

[Crap]

You idiots do realize that if we caught Bin Laden and either:

A. Killed him
B. Put him on trial, sentenced him to death and/or imprisoned him.

That someone else would rise to power and do something far worse while Bin Laden himself would become a martyr. It's a far better strategy to keep one devil that your familiar with in power then to remove him and shuffle the deck as to who the next threat will be.