Anyone hooked hydrogen up to their cars to supplement gas?

[Cathan]

One of my friends has been toying around w/ running current through a sealed containter of water w/ metal plates to separate the water into H H and O to hook up to his car and push his gas mileage.

I was wonderin if anyone here has done anything like that. I saw a guy that had it fully functional in his full size dodge pickup today. He said his gas mileage went from 14 to 21 mpg just hooking up his box to the pcv valve. Makes me wonder what I could get ouf of my Honda.

Downside is you have to pull it off if your state requires inspection but from what I've seen that doesn't look too hard.

My point to asking about this is has anyone heard of someone blowing up their car or some other major problems as a result?

[Malakriss]

Watch the movie Chain Reaction, then imagine ignorant civilians are thrown into the operation and they start attaching devices to cars.

[Dokomo]

One of the biggest downsides to a Hydrogen based economy has always been the transport and storage of fuel. Hydrogen (H2) is such a small molecule it escapes as a gas very slowly from nearly every container you put it in. Storage is either as a compressed gas, which is a terrible idea when you already have a leaky tank or as a liquid which requires energy to keep it cold. These are the main reasons that Hydrogen IMO will never replace gas since it would require the complete overhaul of our energy infrastructure. Ethanol has similar problems due to its corrosive nature, but at least its a liquid at room temp. Of course, electricity is the obvious solution since all we have to do is build more power generating and transfer tech.

[Aetos]

Originally Posted by Dokomo

One of the biggest downsides to a Hydrogen based economy has always been the transport and storage of fuel. Hydrogen (H2) is such a small molecule it escapes as a gas very slowly from nearly every container you put it in. Storage is either as a compressed gas, which is a terrible idea when you already have a leaky tank or as a liquid which requires energy to keep it cold. These are the main reasons that Hydrogen IMO will never replace gas since it would require the complete overhaul of our energy infrastructure. Ethanol has similar problems due to its corrosive nature, but at least its a liquid at room temp. Of course, electricity is the obvious solution since all we have to do is build more power generating and transfer tech.

this makes no sense. how could storage as a compressed gas be a terrible idea? its done all the time.

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Cathan

One of my friends has been toying around w/ running current through a sealed containter of water w/ metal plates to separate the water into H H and O to hook up to his car and push his gas mileage.

Where is this current coming from?

Is he doing this at home than putting the tanks in his car? Or is it powered off the alternator in the car.

If its being run in the car the increased load (resistance to turning) of the alternator will be more than anything gained from the Hydrogen Gas and oxygen.

Someone makes a stupid post about hydrolysis every month or so and the conclusion is always the fucking same.

Energy can not be created nor destroyed only exchanged/moved.

[Rune]

You gotta be shitting me. No way is this even feasible.

[Cathan]

Originally Posted by brekk

Where is this current coming from?

Is he doing this at home than putting the tanks in his car? Or is it powered off the alternator in the car.

It's powered off a 30 amp breaker off the car's fusebox, just run some wires into a tank of some sort w/ water/little baking soda + metal plates and once the current hits it starts separating the water.

If its being run in the car the increased load (resistance to turning) of the alternator will be more than anything gained from the Hydrogen Gas and oxygen.

I don't think I agree w/ that statement since the car I saw w/ it today already has reported increased gas mileage. It doesn't take that much extra juice off the alternator especially for a V8.

Someone makes a stupid post about hydrolysis every month or so and the conclusion is always the fucking same.

Energy can not be created nor destroyed only exchanged/moved.

I'm not making any statements about energy creation or destruction at all. Only fukn retards think that shit that never saw a physics book.

Hooking this up on a car has 0 to do with storing the hydrogen also. The load to separate the water on the engine is low enough I highly doubt 30 amps is going to hinder the base performance of the gas engine as it is. The hydrolosis takes place right under the hood while the car is running, when the car shuts off the hydrolosis is shut off (via head light switch, car beeps if you get out of it w/ the lights still on, guarantees you turn it off so it doesn't keep running after you park the car).

[Ahnkosis]

Originally Posted by Aetos

this makes no sense. how could storage as a compressed gas be a terrible idea? its done all the time.

Storage as a compressed gas isn't a terrible idea...it's just a terrible idea when applied to automobiles.

Autos don't explode on impact typically when you rupture a gas tank, because the liquid gasoline is inflammable, it takes gasoline in a vapor state to become readily combustible.

If you equipped an Auto with a compressed hydrogen tank, you'd have a drivable explosive automobile device (DEAD../snicker).

[Aetos]

Originally Posted by Cathan

I'm not making any statements about energy creation or destruction at all. Only fukn retards think that shit that never saw a physics book.

Hooking this up on a car has 0 to do with storing the hydrogen also. The load to separate the water on the engine is low enough I highly doubt 30 amps is going to hinder the base performance of the gas engine as it is. The hydrolosis takes place right under the hood while the car is running, when the car shuts off the hydrolosis is shut off (via head light switch, car beeps if you get out of it w/ the lights still on, guarantees you turn it off so it doesn't keep running after you park the car).

doesnt it shut off anyway since its hooked up to the alternator and not the battery?

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Cathan

Only fukn retards think that shit that never saw a physics book.

shouldn't call yourself retarded.

Originally Posted by Cathan

The load to separate the water on the engine is low enough I highly doubt 30 amps is going to hinder the base performance of the gas engine as it is.

You're right. The extra load from the hydrolysis will be minor. But it will be at a minimum more load than what is gained from the hydrogen and oxygen.

This is why I was talking about conservation of energy. The hydrolysis process is getting its energy from the engine. That energy is breaking Water down into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Which is then put into the engine and burned for extra energy. But no human system is 100% efficient. So the energy taken from the engine to run the hydrolysis is greater then the energy gained from the Oxygen and Hydrogen going back into the engine.

Originally Posted by Ahnkosis

Autos don't explode on impact typically when you rupture a gas tank, because the liquid gasoline is inflammable, it takes gasoline in a vapor state to become readily combustible.

Please STFU and stop posting in the thread. Thanks.

[Aetos]

Apparently someone has never heard about the crown vic, no?

[Cathan]

Originally Posted by brekk

shouldn't call yourself retarded.



You're right. The extra load from the hydrolysis will be minor. But it will be at a minimum more load than what is gained from the hydrogen and oxygen.

This is why I was talking about conservation of energy. The hydrolysis process is getting its energy from the engine. That energy is breaking Water down into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Which is then put into the engine and burned for extra energy. But no human system is 100% efficient. So the energy taken from the engine to run the hydrolysis is greater then the energy gained from the Oxygen and Hydrogen going back into the engine.



Please STFU and stop posting in the thread. Thanks.

Again I don't disagree that an extra 30 amps on the alternator will add some extra pull to the alternator theoretically but here's my thoughts... The alternator is already turning when the car is on and I suspect that the output from the alternator is much higher than the car needs to actually run itself. If that's true then the 30 amps extra is just taking up juice from the alternator that was being wasted anyway. I don't know this for certain but that's my best guess.

I am a structural engineer, not a mechanical, but I've done my share of work on cars and helicoptors that physics and mechanical equipment are far from beyond my abilities, just stating that as a reference point is all, no bragging or any shit like that intended.

[Schatze]

You do know you can't just mix a gas and a liquid together, right? That you need a specific engine, with specific storage systems, to use gaseous hydrogen no? Or some sort of secondary system to convert the hydrogen into electricity in which case you've just created a hill billy hybrid.

Anyways good luck on your home rig. Hydrogen will diffuse through the crystalline matrix of most metals, so even if you somehow modify the engine, modify the fuel system, modify the onboard computers, modify EVERYTHING you still won't be able to store the stuff with some home built kludge.

Probably a fake post, but I hope and pray with my entire soul it's not. And that these intrepid young souls succeed. And that we get the follow up article that outlines just how they won their Darwin award.

edit: uh guys, you do know that water is fucking heavy right? A cubic meter weighs literally a metric ton.

[whatsamattau]

A square meter of water = 0 volume = 0 mass =/= metric ton

Edit: Damn your ninja edits

[Schatze]

Yeah, I made a mistake and corrected myself before you even posted. I didn't get a night's sleep, relax. The entire point is that lugging that much water around to run some sort of in situ hydrolysis tank is a pointless debate because even if you can take advantage of waste energy in the system, the addition of so much weight will completely kill any benefit to such a system in the first place.