Can someone explain the upside to additional oil drilling in US territory?

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Nuclear runs out too. We're just shifting our problems - but even then, how does Nuclear power help our gasoline dependency?

According to the Department of Energy, 40% of our total energy needs are met by oil. 99% of our vehicle needs are met by oil.

In switching over everyone's heating needs to run off of electricity to be compatible with nuclear power, we might as well focus on wind/solar too, since it runs off of the same grid.

I guess I don't understand the hard-on for nuclear power since it'll be succeptible to the same limits, and foreign control that oil is. We talk of energy as our main national security crisis, yet we don't do anything to make America self-sufficient as possible? We have the land-mass, money, ingenuity, and good ole 'merican gumption to harness wind, water, solar and geothermal energy - yet we're still bickering over which foreign-controlled resource we'd rather use?

Nevermind the stigma attached to nuclear power plants, or the potential for catastrophe should someone decide they don't like the United States enough to act. Just what we need - Chernobyl's dotting American farm-land.

[Cathan]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

I'm down for nationalizing our Oil, just like Cathan hopes for.

Haha, commie.

I only liked the idea because it wasn't nationalized, it was the states' choice what to do if they had oil. I like that idea, however feasible it ends up being it's still govt. decentralization.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

I see, so an oil company gets the right to drill off-shore from a state, then the state controls what it does with it.

Perhaps we're squabbling over the definition of "state control" but I'm pretty sure it's not in your favor.

[Brutul Tarew Marr]

Betting our future on technology that currently doesn't work and just assuming that there will be huge scientific breakthroughs isn't all that bright is it? Nuclear works now, and is FAR safer and cleaner than coal.

STFU about Chernobyl. If somebody dies driving drunk in a 1965 Corvair do you declare all automobiles unsafe? Chernobyl was an archaic piece of shit compared to modern nuclear plants and it still took an almost unthinkable level of negligence and incompetence by the people running it to cause a meltdown.

The only thing that makes fuel cells viable right now is nuclear power. Otherwise we'll just be building coal plants and producing our pollution, but at least the self-righteous yuppies driving the fuel cell cars can pretend that they're saving the world that way.

I'm all for developing solar and wind, but pretending that is the answer in the short or long term is what I would call irrational optimism.

[Angerz]

Unless there is some way to make Wind, water and Solar power everything we do, the only natural resource we dominate the world in is Coal.

We can at best reduce dependancy, not eliminate it.

[Gaereth]

People keep talking about the long term plans;solar, wind, nuclear, unnamed sources, etc. Advancing technology will make all those things possible but it does very little for the here and now. The US saying it looking for alternate sources and even dumping billions and trillions into it will do nothing for us now.

Drill. Drill it all. Drill it anywhere. Now that stance would actually have an effect on prices right now.

If the US took a stance that it was going to take everything out of the ground it could from anyplace it could that sends a strong message. To Opec, to speculators, to everyone.

Speculation is the main reason for our increase in price at this time. Sure, usage is growing like mad in developing areas but production can be increased to cover this so the price should have gone up some, but not like it has.

If you know one of the main players in a poker game will never play face cards then you have a substantial ability to win. That is what the US is doing...they won't play their cards and fold damn near all the time.

By drilling and producing, hell, just by opening up those options, speculation will drop. Why?? Well, if your the first one in on a good thing you can keep pushing the price up and riding it. When you know that things aren't going to change you can keep betting on the same horse.

However, when other parties join the parade your margin starts dropping due to simple economics and/or perception of future profits. Its about simple economics and competition.

Merely by opening up everything in the US to drilling and following through on it would drop a substantial portion of the price off pretty quickly.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Gaereth

People keep talking about the long term plans;solar, wind, nuclear, unnamed sources, etc. Advancing technology will make all those things possible but it does very little for the here and now. The US saying it looking for alternate sources and even dumping billions and trillions into it will do nothing for us now.

Drill. Drill it all. Drill it anywhere. Now that stance would actually have an effect on prices right now.

If the US took a stance that it was going to take everything out of the ground it could from anyplace it could that sends a strong message. To Opec, to speculators, to everyone.

Speculation is the main reason for our increase in price at this time. Sure, usage is growing like mad in developing areas but production can be increased to cover this so the price should have gone up some, but not like it has.

If you know one of the main players in a poker game will never play face cards then you have a substantial ability to win. That is what the US is doing...they won't play their cards and fold damn near all the time.

By drilling and producing, hell, just by opening up those options, speculation will drop. Why?? Well, if your the first one in on a good thing you can keep pushing the price up and riding it. When you know that things aren't going to change you can keep betting on the same horse.

However, when other parties join the parade your margin starts dropping due to simple economics and/or perception of future profits. Its about simple economics and competition.

Merely by opening up everything in the US to drilling and following through on it would drop a substantial portion of the price off pretty quickly.

Oil companies already have leases for 41 million square miles of land to drill on - they currently are working on about 20% of that. It takes 10 years from the moment the drill is dug to see oil from it - yet they aren't even digging wells for them. You talk of opening up the options - the options are there, it's the oil companies that are dragging their asses because they are enjoying the highest profits to date. Why would they lower that? Businesses act in their own interest, you're out of your mind if you think they would willingly act against what makes them money right now. I wonder why that is?

Drilling in ANWR, off-shore, etc, is just a stop-gap measure for a fundamentally flawed system. Solar power is already here. Wind power is already here. There are steps we could take to lighten the load on everyone RIGHT NOW while we work on improving the efficiency of the technology. As of the writing of this paper a 92 mile by 92 mile solar grid could theoretically power the entire nation. 8,464 square miles. 7.5% of the land in Arizona. You could split that up, too, to cover land in multiple desert states.

It's entirely possible to cover our needs right now, but the various lobbies have a hold of our government and will not allow it to happen.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

It's entirely possible to cover our needs right now, but the various lobbies have a hold of our government and will not allow it to happen.

Do it yourself.

The process in the video below is pretty close to what we use at my parents ranch. The difference being that instead of having the film on a roof, we had a company construct an array that tracks the sun.

Average suntime in that location is above average so it is an ideal spot for a solar array, but even still, a small array of pv-cells can only help.

I'm guessing that the system being shown in the video cost around $40-80,000.

That is purely a guess based on what we paid.

[Gaereth]

Solar power and wind are well and good for my home, or office.

How do I get myself there??

Sourcing power for static places can indeed be done now but that doesn't do anything for movement. Getting affordable sources of power for an individual to move from point A to B is the problem.

I have no doubt that we will eventually create something that allows todays current freedom without the use of oil....but that is down the road. Currently we need oil, and lots of it, until we get something else.

Freeing nations and companies to get that oil would drop prices.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Gaereth

Solar power and wind are well and good for my home, or office.

How do I get myself there??

Not sure.

Solar power generator at home for charge (as well as solar powered air compressors instead of gas stations).


Video is from 2005. Read the article above for when it's coming to the United States.



I'm sure plenty of people will point and laugh at it, till gas hits $8.00 a gallon.

If you want something with more kick, go full electric using your solar power generator at home to charge. You got two choices, the Aptera Typ-1 or the much lauded Tesla Roadster.

So there are three viable transportation options at least for those in urban areas.

There are even more options on the horizon.

[Gaereth]

The problem is....everything is damned expensive right now. Best case puts you at about $30k with a very limited ranged. I know things are coming and will eventually be priced just like todays cars...but what do we do now?? You also have all the issues surrounding batteries and the environmental portion of the debate, but lets ignore that for now.

You could buy a little cheap 4 banger used for well under $10k, put $50 in gas a week in it right now, and drive where ever you want. Lets say you stay at $50 a week and the car cost $10k, $20k less than the electric. You could drive that little car for 8 years before reaching how much the electric cost. Thats not even including what it would cost to power the electric.

Even if gas tripled to $15 per gallon you could still drive that little car for 2.5 years before reaching the same price an electric would cost. Still not including charging costs.

The solutions are coming, they just aren't viable at the moment and won't be for at least another decade for most people. That leaves us in the unenviable position of doing something to reduce the oil prices, right now. The only way to stop the speculation and deal with the supply and demand is to increase supply.

Heck, we can easily put this in ways that all the old EQ people can get. If you have one Fungi tunic in the AH then the price is gonna be HUGE. If you have one guild with Seb locked down then they can charge whatever they want for it and force everyone to just eat it.

But lets instance Seb. Lets put 30 of them in the AH....whats the price now??

[Brutul Tarew Marr]

No high technology is required if you really want to cut down on your gas usage. Just move closer to your job and then get a bicycle, the worlds most efficient mode of transportation by a large margin.

[Gaereth]

That gets right back to the little 4 banger example from above.

I live in a home but feel its way to expensive to live so far away, so I purchase a home closer to work. For this to make any sense it would have to be a straight swap, selling my current home pays for the new home completely. I don't have to change anything, update anything or pay anything more than I am right now. I also want to be living in the same quality and level of home that I currently have.

But for most people, moving closer generally means increasing the home price unless you live in town and work in the suburbs. So suddenly you are paying more in home costs just to try to save a bit of money in gas.

Lets say the new home adds $500 a month.

So that means for it to be affordable for me to move I would have to be spending MORE than $500 a month in gas for just my work driving. No other driving counts, nothing. Its only about the work driving. That means I would have to be driving more than 2,500 miles per month (at 25mpg) in just to work miles to make it make any sort of sense to move closer to work.

Sure, there are tons of things you CAN do. Its just that most of them aren't fiscally sound.

Well, unless you want to take the level you are living at now and dump it down by 50% and perhaps pick up another family or 2 to live with you.

-shrug- It just doesn't make sense.

[hauwk]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Nuclear runs out too. We're just shifting our problems - but even then, how does Nuclear power help our gasoline dependency?

According to the Department of Energy, 40% of our total energy needs are met by oil. 99% of our vehicle needs are met by oil.

In switching over everyone's heating needs to run off of electricity to be compatible with nuclear power, we might as well focus on wind/solar too, since it runs off of the same grid.

I guess I don't understand the hard-on for nuclear power since it'll be succeptible to the same limits, and foreign control that oil is. We talk of energy as our main national security crisis, yet we don't do anything to make America self-sufficient as possible? We have the land-mass, money, ingenuity, and good ole 'merican gumption to harness wind, water, solar and geothermal energy - yet we're still bickering over which foreign-controlled resource we'd rather use?

Nevermind the stigma attached to nuclear power plants, or the potential for catastrophe should someone decide they don't like the United States enough to act. Just what we need - Chernobyl's dotting American farm-land.

I say Build Nuclear power plants everywhere, then take the waste to sayyy.. Mexico and dump it. Then when they're like "WTF???" we can just tell them to get fucked... learn to deal with it. Make them pay for our waste.??

Better yet.. we can ship like ALL of our bad shit to mexico. Prisoners, trash dumps, nuclear waste, chemical waste, hazmat. We can just roll that shit in there with a division of tanks on guard, then roll right back out and protect our border. There has to be at least 1 perk to being the worlds only superpower..

looks like a win to me.

[Tripamang]

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Current economic uranium resources will last for over 100 years at current consumption rates, while it is expected there is twice that amount awaiting discovery. With reprocessing and recycling, the reserves are good for thousands of years.[34]. It is estimated that 5.5 million tonnes of uranium ore reserves are economically viable[35] , while 35 million tonnes are classed as mineral resources (reasonable prospects for eventual economic extraction).[36] An additional 4.6 billion tonnes of uranium are estimated to be in sea water (Japanese scientists in the 1980s showed that extraction of uranium from sea water using ion exchangers was feasible).

So supposedly we're good on nuclear for a few thousand years if need be.. that's really not that bad.