FEMA shits the bed again?

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

I'm not saying bail people out completely and nor am I saying they should be bailed out ever time a minor flood happens and they didn't have insurance. I'm saying when that rare once-in-a-lifetime event happens then yes the government should bail them out. A once in a 500 year flood is a super rare extreme occurrence and should receive our benefit. A flood that happens every other season is their own damn responsibility.

Just like California has wildfires ever summer if someones house got burned its there own damn fault if they didn't have fire insurance but if those wildfires burned insanely extreme one summer and took out the whole of California then YES that would be extreme enough to bail them out.

A once in a 500 year flood qualifies imo.

*scratches head* they live on a floodplain. in an area that flooded before. in an area that flooded in many of these people's lifetimes. there were conversations about this area being at risk for a flood. conversations that escalated to the point of asking a federal agency about the area and floods. so the fact that a flood happened, when they had notice it could, and they didnt have insurance.....is entirely mitigated by the fact that the flood was really big?



they are entitled to some support, and some small level of compensation for detrimental reliance on idiotic statements made by the government. not a bailout.

[CnCGOD]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

From a strict cost analysis as 1 of 300 million people in this country it costs you nothing to subsidize those people's "gambling" habits. I don't agree with their risky living choices either but if someone loses most of what they have to natural disaster, I don't much agree with the "fuck you you are on your own" stance either.

Response to the edit:
One thing I'd disagree with you on is that giving people in need a helping hand forms a habit of reliance. I see the logic in that, but from a realistic standpoint, if people end up deep in a hole without any helping hand out, they are always going to be reliant. If you help them out they might stand on their own eventually.

You forgot that a large portion of that (the exact #s needed to help democrats stay competative id guess) pays 0 taxes. So the burden is on a much smaller portion of the population.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Etoille

*scratches head* they live on a floodplain. in an area that flooded before. so the fact that a flood happened and they didnt have insurance.....is mitigated by the fact that the flood was really big?

If its a big enough once in a extreme life time event? Yes

Besides the insurance companies aren't reliable they will hire lawyers to go around negating your flooding in all kinds of bullshit ways. You can't possibly tell me the crackhead shit they came up with wouldn't happen again for these people if they had flood insurance.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by CnCGOD

You forgot that a large portion of that (the exact #s needed to help democrats stay competative id guess) pays 0 taxes. So the burden is on a much smaller portion of the population.

Hahaha ok, crunch the numbers and get back to me with the real cost per taxpayer. See if you can figure out a way to make it more than a penny.

Worst possible direction to take this discussion...

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

If its a big enough once in a extreme life time event? Yes

Besides the insurance companies aren't reliable they will hire lawyers to go around negating your flooding in all kinds of bullshit ways. You can't possibly tell me the crackhead shit they came up with wouldn't happen again for these people if they had flood insurance.

tell me again about all those horror stories of people's tornado and wildfire insurance claims being denied?

oh thats right. people living in places where certain disasters were risky bought appropriate levels of insurance and were compensated. no story.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by Etoille

*scratches head* they live on a floodplain. in an area that flooded before. in an area that flooded in many of these people's lifetimes. there were conversations about this area being at risk for a flood. conversations that escalated to the point of asking a federal agency about the area and floods. so the fact that a flood happened, when they had notice it could, and they didnt have insurance.....is entirely mitigated by the fact that the flood was really big?



they are entitled to some support, and some small level of compensation for detrimental reliance on idiotic statements made by the government. not a bailout.

I guess you're right. Insurance companies wouldn't possibly try and find a way to weasel out of paying. OR WOULD THEY?

The plaintiffs were asking the justices to review portions of an August 2007 ruling by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans that insurers aren't obligated to cover water damage from a levee failure.

[Sharmai]

hurricane katrina wind damage insurance - Google Search

Short version: If then wind caused your house to be damaged which might have let the water in then flooding doesn't count.

If a combination of wind and water hit your house then that combination is excluded so it doesn't count.

You seriously never heard about this?

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Sunder

I guess you're right. Insurance companies wouldn't possibly try and find a way to weasel out of paying. OR WOULD THEY?

Goddamn your a genius +Internets...

Etoille are you seriously being this much of an ass? People made a mistake so they should just up and lose everything? Home, life, business, belongings, everything and they should still have to pay off the debt they owe to what was destroyed? Fuck even i am not that evil.

Just throw them out to welfare and lets pay for some more homeless right?

Etollie the insurance company: Oh you didn't have insurance? Sorry you just lost your home, your belongings are damaged beyond repair, you have no place to live, no food to eat,the clothes on your back, your farm or job was flooded and now worthless (oh btw your fired since no company exists anymore under flood waters). Hey btw don't forget to make that mortgage payment on the 1st that car payment on the 15th and you still owe 50k in student loans. Oh heres you 300$ a month welfare check.. Have a good day!

[Angerz]

I thought most private insurance companies don't offer flood insurance, unless you live in a place that is worse than a 100 year flood plain. If you want flood insurance, you need to seek it out from an insurer that provides it.

The problem with flood insurance is, is that it is a money losing proposition for the insurance companies. The cost per claimant is way too high, too few people pay into it for what it has to pay out, even at 100 year levels. So they don't offer it.

[Phelps McManus]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

Hahaha ok, crunch the numbers and get back to me with the real cost per taxpayer. See if you can figure out a way to make it more than a penny.

Worst possible direction to take this discussion...

Crunch the numbers? I am not sure what crunching is necessary to show that 300million people paying one penny is $3mil. If it takes more than $3mil to "bail out" these flood victims, then the cost per taxpayer is more than one penny. If less than the entire population pays taxes (babies, retards, retarded babies, etc) then the cost per taxpayer is more than one penny.

That said, the government has the responsibility to provide a basic standard of care for its citizens. Regardless of whether New Orleans or Iowa residents neglected to buy insurance, nobody should be out on the fucking street if you want to have any semblance of being the worlds only Superpower.

Disaster prevention and relief is one of the few reasons I would willingly pay taxes.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Sunder

I guess you're right. Insurance companies wouldn't possibly try and find a way to weasel out of paying. OR WOULD THEY?

full text opinion pls. you know as well as i do the media spin on opinions.

[Angerz]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

Crunch the numbers? I am not sure what crunching is necessary to show that 300million people paying one penny is $3mil. If it takes more than $3mil to "bail out" these flood victims, then the cost per taxpayer is more than one penny. If less than the entire population pays taxes (babies, retards, retarded babies, etc) then the cost per taxpayer is more than one penny.

That said, the government has the responsibility to provide a basic standard of care for its citizens. Regardless of whether New Orleans or Iowa residents neglected to buy insurance, nobody should be out on the fucking street if you want to have any semblance of being the worlds only Superpower.

Disaster prevention and relief is one of the few reasons I would willingly pay taxes.

Say we all give up a $tankofgas. Thats about 1.2billion. $4 a person isn't that big of a deal to help a part of the country that is very important to the infrastructure of our country.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

Crunch the numbers? I am not sure what crunching is necessary to show that 300million people paying one penny is $3mil. If it takes more than $3mil to "bail out" these flood victims, then the cost per taxpayer is more than one penny.

Man, they added up way faster than I thought it would. Governemnt should just issue them all 4k so I can be right.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

Goddamn your a genius +Internets...

Etoille are you seriously being this much of an ass? People made a mistake so they should just up and lose everything? Home, life, business, belongings, everything and they should still have to pay off the debt they owe to what was destroyed? Fuck even i am not that evil.

Just throw them out to welfare and lets pay for some more homeless right?

Etollie the insurance company: Oh you didn't have insurance? Sorry you just lost your home, your belongings are damaged beyond repair, you have no place to live, no food to eat,the clothes on your back, your farm or job was flooded and now worthless (oh btw your fired since no company exists anymore under flood waters). Hey btw don't forget to make that mortgage payment on the 1st that car payment on the 15th and you still owe 50k in student loans. Oh heres you 300$ a month welfare check.. Have a good day!

Tell me how this is different than bailing people out of mortgages they didnt read. Please.

Tell me also how this is different than someone with a gambling problem who loses their house and everything they own.


Youre arguing Katrina, I'm arguing the law. I never said insurance is awesome or that it fixes everything. I said its part of a procedure that is a prerequisite to BEING MADE WHOLE. I said that the government SHOULD help people and in this case should be subject to a lawsuit on top of that.

NO they dont get to be made whole because they did not take the necessary step of paying for insurance which is a contract to be MADE WHOLE in the event of a disaster.

NO some people of New Orleans dont get to get a check from the government for years on end while other people down there are working hard to rebuild the city that the check collectors LOOTED.

If you cant understand the difference well christ i dont know what to tell you. Then again its my damn fault. Its the second time this week that I've become so mired in your stupidity that my IQ was lowered so that I would be dumb enough to argue with you.

I'm all about personal responsibility. And the fact that I allowed myself to get drawn into arguing with you again is my fault.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Etoille

full text opinion pls. you know as well as i do the media spin on opinions.

Last year, a state judge ruled that Lafayette's flood-exclusion language was ambiguous and therefore covered 'man-made events.' The Army Corps of Engineers is widely blamed for the failure of the city's levee system.

Apparently if a levee breaks it goes from being a "flood" to being a "man-made event.

So if your at risk of your house flooding whatever the fuck you do DON'T TRY AND STOP IT.