Islamic Theocracy given nukes!

[Kugbok_Fennin]

Originally Posted by Millie

Israel didn't have a hand in 9/11, for starters.

Prove it.

[Brutul Tarew Marr]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

Prove it.

It's impossible to prove a negative. Prove that they did.

[Kugbok_Fennin]

Originally Posted by Millie

Eh. I wasn't even talking about Israel, but since you brought it up, I don't think it's fair to call Israel an aggressor vis-a-vis its neighbors. Israel has gone too far on a number of occasions, but by and large, it is acting defensively against neighbors who fire rockets into its cities on a daily basis (Palestinians) and neighbors who have repeatedly banded together and attempted to invade Israel (Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc.) several times in the past.

Israel is hardly blameless for its current predicament, but it's grossly unfair to claim Israel is being "aggressive." It's being defensive. Overly defensive at times, but defensive nonetheless. Hell, every time Israel has ceded territory to the Palestinians or others, rockets still get fired and invasion threats still get made. What would you do in Israel's shoes?

Was Israel being Defensive when it deliberately attacked the USS Liberty in 1967?

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

Prove it.

The burden of proof lies with the accuser. If you think they did then YOU prove it.

[Kugbok_Fennin]

For simple starters

Context of 'January 2000: Israeli Spy Ring Begins Penetrating US'

[Jait]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

Was Israel being Defensive when it deliberately attacked the USS Liberty in 1967?

Yes, that's exactly what they were doing. Just as we ourselves concluded from lengthy investigations after the war.

Shit happens in war. We've bombed Canadians, the Chinese media, our own soldiers etc... None of them decided it was an act of war either. But this is common sense to almost anyone with half a brain. There's this little thing called motive you might want to look into. Unless you're as ignorant as Lumie and believe the Israelis were trying to provoke a two front war against one of the biggest super-powers.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

Was Israel being Defensive when it deliberately attacked the USS Liberty in 1967?

According to the Joint Chiefs, the NSA and the CIA itself yes, in fact it WAS a tragic accident and the Israelis were acting defensively during a time of war.

But now we get to be treated to your prisonplanet version of events wherein LBJ approved of the loss of the USS Liberty just so we can blame it on the Egyptians and help the Israelis militarily right?

[Snugglebear]

Originally Posted by Khorum

According to the Joint Chiefs, the NSA and the CIA itself yes, in fact it WAS a tragic accident and the Israelis were acting defensively during a time of war.

But now we get to be treated to your prisonplanet version of events wherein LBJ approved of the loss of the USS Liberty just so we can blame it on the Egyptians and help the Israelis militarily right?

If that doesn't go through, USS Liberty Attack Mistaken Identity with Egyptian El Quseir Horse Carrier. I dunno, maybe they could confuse them.

[Kolle]

one thing you must keep in mind is that the us government has never done anything underhanded. in any situation they have always done the morally right thing. fault always lies with another country that isn't our ally.

[Aetos]

I know that this thread is no longer about getting nukes, but I think we should recognize the fact that nuclear power technology and nuclear weapon technology are different

[OneofOne]

Originally Posted by Aetos

I know that this thread is no longer about getting nukes, but I think we should recognize the fact that nuclear power technology and nuclear weapon technology are different

Except that nuclear power plant waste can be used for dirty bombs. And breeder reactors, which run on spent fuel (which is a good thing - we need to be reusing as much of this crap as possible) produces weapons-grade plutonium.

[Aetos]

Originally Posted by OneofOne

Except that nuclear power plant waste can be used for dirty bombs. And breeder reactors, which run on spent fuel (which is a good thing - we need to be reusing as much of this crap as possible) produces weapons-grade plutonium.

Except that weapons-grade plutonium needs to be refined which is where most countries get stuck in their development.

[OneofOne]

Originally Posted by Aetos

Except that weapons-grade plutonium needs to be refined which is where most countries get stuck in their development.

That's a bit sticky - it's not as complicated as you make it sound (relatively speaking). Regardless, the US appears to have conducted a successful nuclear test using unenriched waste, albeit less powerful than similar nukes.

My point is that it's not a giantic leap from nuclear power to nuclear weapons (conventional or dirty).

[Kolle]

doesn't seem too hard to inflict damage on the usa without resorting to nuclear shit

[Burf]

Originally Posted by Etoille

reports cited in mearsheimers work

You should just fellate the guy and get it over with.