To all cat owners...

[Cad]

Old picture of my cat when she was a kitten. Had to find her a new home when I got married since the wife is allergic, but she went to an 11 year old girl who was a cat lover. She was declawed, always indoors, never outside, slept in my bed, ate cat food.. highly pampered and very happy. She would run to the door when I got home, follow me around the house, go to bed when I did, sleep on my lap or on the monitor (back in the CRT days) when I was on the computer..

You guys with your declawing shit need to STFU. I'm sure it hurts them a bit at the time but thats what makes having an indoor cat possible. I'm sure if you could ask the cat if they'd rather have an indoor pampered life or be an outdoor cat, they'd say fuck these nails, get me some tuna!

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by chaos

The situation you describe is the case of an irresponsible owner. I take care of my animal, train him when not to use his claws, and don't leave him unsupervised around infants. I think I'm a pretty goddamn good pet owner, and I don't really give a shit if you think I'm not just because I don't want to cut off the ends of my cat's fingers. It's vanity, it is nothing like spaying or neutering.

Its not just about infants, its about guests, or children. A cat will scratch even when its being playful, it will scratch when its upset, stressed, mad, scared, basically it will scratch for a gambit of reasons. To most people, its not a big deal, but if someone reacts to the scratch bad (IE tries to toss the cat away), they will probably get another, worse, scratch. You don't have to be a "bad owner" for that to happen, you just have to not be thinking clearly or be distracted, which happens to everyone, even the best owners.

Why take the risk? Its vanity to not to have it done..Its you putting some moral regard above the well being of the animal on the whole. You believe its some kind of mutilation (Most vets will tell you the claws are superfluous and its not) and so you won't have it done..As I said though, if you believe your situation allows for it, and you have the experience to allow it, go for it..

However what makes you an asshole is your preaching that its "terrible" to have it done. Its people like you that convince these first time owners to not have the procedure and that eventually get cats into trouble.

Unless your very comfortable with these animals, they should be declawed, I have seen too many cats die to think otherwise..And almost every fucking person said "b-but our friend said declawing was so wrong!"..So yes, I think people like you a horrible for cats in general, even if you are a good owner, your opinion, sucks.

[Phelps McManus]

Originally Posted by Lithose

No, injuries from cats are higher..They just aren't as severe. Cat bites are also worse then dog bites in most cases because of the infection they can cause.

Cat bites are worse than claws, but how will declawing help prevent them? If a cat is aggressive, it will have to be separated (locked in a room, put outside, or adopted out to a new home) from the baby. If it is playful, try a water bottle whenever it gets too close. When unsupervised, the baby should have a crib tent or a screened/closed door (with monitor).

Any adult should be able to handle a scratch.

[chaos]

Every single vet I have talked to here refuses to even do the procedure. None of the adoption agencies in NoVA will even allow you to adopt if you plan on declawing the animal. You make it out to sound like everyone is cool with it except a couple of hippies on the internet, and that is far from the case. Whatever, we'll never agree, like I said before I understand that because of the procedure many cats live who otherwise wouldn't, that is a good thing, but the procedure is still fucked up and barbaric. It's a band-aid over the real problem of vanity pets and poor animal ownership in America, and pet over population.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

Cat bites are worse than claws, but how will declawing help prevent them? If a cat is aggressive, it will have to be separated (locked in a room, put outside, or adopted out to a new home) from the baby. If it is playful, try a water bottle whenever it gets too close. When unsupervised, the baby should have a crib tent or a screened/closed door (with monitor).

Any adult should be able to handle a scratch.

I'm not sure if cat claws have poison or some other chemical in them but they hurt a lot worse than they have any right to considering the severity of the injury and they don't heal quickly, at all. Take forever. Cat scratches SUCK. Their bites don't hurt much at all except when they are kittens and their teeth are little stilettos.

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

Cat bites are worse than claws, but how will declawing help prevent them? If a cat is aggressive, it will have to be separated (locked in a room, put outside, or adopted out to a new home) from the baby. If it is playful, try a water bottle whenever it gets too close. When unsupervised, the baby should have a crib tent or a screened/closed door (with monitor).

Any adult should be able to handle a scratch.

Cats, even when playing, use their claws to instinctively draw in the objects they are playing with. Go ahead, toy with your cat, you will notice the behavior. However, if you touch a cats stomach wrong, it will bite nine times out of ten unless your the owner or its very comfortable with you.

When a cat scratches, the first instinct of most people is to jerk their arms. When working around them, the first thing you learn as that this is a *bad fucking move*. A cats claws can extend, actually locking in more if you try to jerk. So even if the cat was playing, you could make it much worse.

To make it even worse, because your arm is going to be under it, if you jerk up, the cat will usually instinctively bite what its holding..A lot of young groomers will pet cats they are grooming and then freak out of the cat scratches them, which makes the cat bite them.

If the cat has *no* claws though, your arm would slip away before any of this escalated..its the claws that often lock the cat on to you..Thats how they are designed..when a cat "fights" the front claws act as anchors, allowing for thrashes from the rear claws...Thats why when they are removed, the chance for injury goes way down.

[Phelps McManus]

Originally Posted by Lithose

You believe its some kind of mutilation (Most vets will tell you the claws are superfluous and its not) and so you won't have it done.

3rd nipples are superfluous. I don't need my first 2 either, but you don't see me removing them.

Indoor cats don't need their claws, but neither do they have to have them removed. Dogs and cats don't need their canines to chew their normal food and they can do the most damage with them.

Like your appendix, by all means remove a cat's claws if they are a problem. You don't remove your appendix because it might get infected.

However what makes you an asshole is your preaching that its "terrible" to have it done. Its people like you that convince these first time owners to not have the procedure and that eventually get cats into trouble.

People should be aware that this is a painful procedure, regardless of whether a scalpel or laser is used. It isn't a nail trim. It is an amputation. These are facts they should know before deciding to declaw their cat. Similarly, they should know what likely happens to cats that are returned to the pound.

Declawing is a humane solution to a problem, but it is not a necessity.

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Cad

I'm not sure if cat claws have poison or some other chemical in them but they hurt a lot worse than they have any right to considering the severity of the injury and they don't heal quickly, at all. Take forever. Cat scratches SUCK. Their bites don't hurt much at all except when they are kittens and their teeth are little stilettos.

Cat scratch fever is a real thing..Cat's teeth, because of their grooming, have an enormous amount of extremely tough bacteria. A cat bite at a vet or grooming shop is an immediate hospital visit, even if the cat is healthy. Lock-jaw, and a myriad number of other diseases can set in less then 24 hours after a bit.

I would rather be bitten by a dog any day of the week, easy. (Thats bitten, not attacked, very different)

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

3rd nipples are superfluous. I don't need my first 2 either, but you don't see me removing them.

Can your third nipple potentially cause a person who rubs it wrong a massive injury?

Apples, meet the Oranges.

As for canines, if a dog is biting, thats an aggressive behavior, at that point, you have failed as an owner..A cats claws don't have to be used (initially) aggressively to cause a lot of damage. A cat can be playing and grip you with its claws..If your used to cats, you know to freeze your arm, and hiss or tap the cat, and he will let go, simple. If your not the owner, or your new, you will pull back..and thats when trouble happens.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Lithose

I would rather be bitten by a dog any day of the week, easy. (Thats bitten, not attacked, very different)

I've been bitten by a pissed off, unsocialized pit bull before and you are wrong.

[Cad]

I've been bitten by any number of cats, bad enough to draw blood and they heal pretty decently - not sure about the "immediate hospital visit" stuff.

[Sharmai]

I always thought getting them declawed was no more inhumane or monstrous then having your tonsils taken out. It hurts for awhile, you heal, you get over it. Life goes on. They aren't enslaved or permanently mistreated after that or anything. If they are indoor cats and mind are then its no big deal at all and just ends up in more happiness for the animal and everyone involved.
After all people won't be scared when you say your cats declawed and that fear people have of unclawed cats is unrecognized by cats and they react accordingly.

I hate going over to someones house with undeclawed cats because I have to worry about getting all scratched up if the cat won't leave me alone.

Edit** Oh and cats with claws have a tendency to prick and scratch you while your petting them because they enjoy it so much and that shit hurts. God forbid they jump off fast and prick you hard enough to bleed for any reason..

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by chaos

I've been bitten by a pissed off, unsocialized pit bull before and you are wrong.

So, you were bitten once by a Pit-Bull? Really? Just once?

Just asking because a single bite and release is completely against the normal behavior pattern of an "unsocialized angry" pit bull...

You sound like you know a lot about animals though, so I am sure your story is 100% accurate and correct..

[Koivu]

Declawing is illegal (much like the dog surgeries) in various parts of Europe, which doesn't seem to stop us Euro-hippies from keeping and loving cats. When you take on an animal as a pet, you really do take on a responsibility of training it as well. Cats can be trained to not to play with claws out, the claws can be trimmed so that they are not weapons of death. Spaying/neutering I agree is responsible pet ownership, especially if your animal is an outdoor one (cat or dog). People who take on pets without realizing the adjacent risks (dog might chew shoes, bite strangers/children, the same way cat might scratch up furniture or people) and don't take the precaution of training their animals to be suitable for pets really shouldn't be pet owners. Anecdotal story from my childhood. A friend of our family had a dour mooded tomcat, who would allow to be petted for a while, and then would scratch/bite before slunking off when he got bored with the attention. Whenever we went over, the host simply warned us that Syltty might not be feeling friendly and if we got scratched, it would be our own fault. Fair enough.

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Cad

I've been bitten by any number of cats, bad enough to draw blood and they heal pretty decently - not sure about the "immediate hospital visit" stuff.

Breaking skin is not a bite, even if there is some blood..A "bite" is the cat puncturing the skin, which can produce a wound nearly half an inch deep. Dog bite wounds can be worse, but a cat bite will almost *always* get infected.