Fires of Heaven Guild Message Board  

Go Back   Fires of Heaven Guild Message Board > Fires of Heaven Related Forums > Retard Rickshaw
User Name
Password
ForumSpy Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Poll: Who will win?
Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.
Poll Options
Who will win?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-11-2008, 01:58 PM   #1951 (permalink)
Khorum
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,166
-23 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simas View Post
What you are miserably failing to understand is that even though there may be nothing that shows Obama could actually do anything for gays, or abortion, or net neutrality, he still has stances on those issues.

I.e. If one could have a worthless politician that supports their views its better than any level of politician that contradicts their views.

As cynical as we all may be I dont think any is quite so cynical yet as to say Obama is secretly Pro-life and just playing to his base.
Oh and exactly WHAT views on ABORTION, on GAYS and on net neutrality do you imagine McCain is sooooo radically different from Obama about, Simas?

McCain is a life-long pro-choicer, Simas. He was opposed REPUBLICAN JUSTICES because of his staunch pro-abortion stance. I'm more pro-states' rights than I am pro-life, but McCain's position on the Roe V. Wade is a 30-year path of open defiance to prevailing conservative sentiment of our generation.

McCain's position on Gay rights go much farther back than his brutal excoriation of his own fellow Republicans for their attempt to frivolously amend the constitution to prohibit human dignity. McCain sits on Barry Goldwater's senate seat and is the protege of the man who urged Reagan to treat gays in the military with dignity.

So now let's choose which is the worthless politician who supports your views versus "any level" of politician who contradicts them?

Well, Obama's career shows us that he's more than willing to subscribe to whatever convenient political force happens his way, so it's not like we have a reliable gauge of where he stands. But we DO have a record of the sort of half-hearted defense of the issues we can expect from the man who was the WORST attendance record of any Illinois State Senator and one of the worst for a US senator.

While I may not be cynical enough to say Obama is pro-life in any way shape or form---in fact, I have no doubt he's absolutely on board with his brothers' rights to snuff their seed---I'm observant and objective enough to see that Obama will STOP AT NOTHING to spread his reckless dishonesty about something as minute as $150,000 housing transaction all the way to lying to the working folks of the Rust Belt about how he would protect their interests with NAFTA even while he writes to the Canadians admitting that he was lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simas View Post
Anyways, arguing experience over newbishness completely misses the point when the experienced guy will use that experience to do shit the voter will not agree with.

You acting as if this isnt common sense is asanine.
I've PLEADED common fucking sense over and over and over the fuck again. I'm still finishing my response to your long-winded attempt at common sense from a few pages back, but as with that post and with Sharmai's the only deficiency of common sense around here is with the folks who REFUSE to scrutinize Obama's ridiculous history just as they persist on the TRULY asinine task of spreading his lies.
Khorum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:04 PM   #1952 (permalink)
[LVC]DeGrassi
I love Scotch.
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: La Verne, Ca
Posts: 256
+0 Internets
Send a message via AIM to [LVC]DeGrassi
Wish we could put Bill back in office for 8 years.

Theres something about Obama that just pisses me off, its probably that the retards voting for him on every forum out there put his god damn fucking picture as there avatar. I'm voting for John this year just on that alone. I dont like either one of them period, but that avatar thing just irks me.
[LVC]DeGrassi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:08 PM   #1953 (permalink)
Soriak
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,325
+15 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch View Post
For example, raising the capital gains tax is just plain stupid but no one challenges him on it.
It really isn't that stupid. First of all, there's no alternative to investing. You're not going to put your money into a savings account (interest considered income) because taxes on the average 8%-10% annual return go up.

I'm not sure how much he wants to raise them, but let's use a simple example: a raise from 15% to 20%. (assuming the investment is held for a year and a day)

$1m investment returns an additional $100k and is sold. Tax goes up by $5k from $15k to $20k. Does anyone really think someone's going to stop investing and put the money in a savings account, where the return is $30k and it's taxed as income? (That'd be what, $12k in taxes in the highest bracket?)

So after tax, the investment nets you $1,080,000; the savings account $1,018,000.



Btw: aren't 401(k)s taxed as income and not capital gains? That'd invalidate the argument that "all Americans are affected" (read some Republican spew that) entirely... but I'm not sure if that's the case.
Soriak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:12 PM   #1954 (permalink)
Zitar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 183
+1 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by [LVC]DeGrassi View Post
Wish we could put Bill back in office for 8 years.

Theres something about Obama that just pisses me off, its probably that the retards voting for him on every forum out there put his god damn fucking picture as there avatar. I'm voting for John this year just on that alone. I dont like either one of them period, but that avatar thing just irks me.
I wonder how many people have never voted for someone they actually believe in. The first election I voted in was 1996 and every 4 years it's the lesser of 2 evils. Not once have I even been remotely excited about a presidential election.
Zitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:12 PM   #1955 (permalink)
Sharmai
"Change doesn't come from Washington, it comes to Washington." - Guess who
 
Sharmai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorum View Post
McCain is a life-long pro-choicer,
Warning wall of text on McCains voting record. Read first one to see McCains pro-life stance.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Pro-life and an advocate for the Rights of Man everywhere
I am pro-life and an advocate for the Rights of Man everywhere in the world, because to be denied liberty is an offense to nature and nature's Creator. I will never waver in that conviction. Our liberty will not be seized in a political revolution or by a totalitarian government. But, rather, as Burke warned, it can be "nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts." I am alert to that risk and will defend against it, and I will be encouraged in that defense by my fellow conservatives.
Source: Speeches to 2008 Conservative Political Action Conference Feb 7, 2008

GovWatch: 1999: Don't force women to have illegal operations
Top McCain Flip Flops: #4. Roe vs Wade:

In August 1999, McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle that he would "not support repeal of Roe vs Wade" because it would force women to undergo illegal operations. He has subsequently said that he was speaking about the need to change the "culture of America", and supports the repeal of Roe vs Wade.
Source: GovWatch on 2008 campaign: "Top Ten Flip-Flops" Feb 5, 2008

Abortion issue shows what kind of country we are
Q: Some people argue that, in the general election, the most important issue is going to be national security, and an issue like abortion should be de-emphasized. Do you agree with that?

A: I think the respect and commitment to the rights of the unborn is something I've fought for, and it has a lot to do with national security. Because it says very much what kind of a country we are and our respect for human life, whether it be here in the US or anyplace else in the world. So I think it is connected.
Source: 2007 GOP Iowa Straw Poll debate Aug 5, 2007

Concerned if women undergo illegal dangerous operations
Q: In 1999, you said, "In the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force X number of women in American to undergo illegal and dangerous operations."

A: That was in the context of conversation about having to change the culture of America as regards to this issue. I have stated time after time after time that Roe v. Wade was a bad decision, that I support the rights of the unborn.

Q: If Roe v. Wade was overturned during a McCain presidency, and individual states chose to ban abortion, would you be concerned that, as you said, X number of women in America would undergo illegal and dangerous operations?

A: No, I would hope that X women in America would bring those children into life in this world, and that I could do whatever I could to assist them. Again, that conversation from 1999, so often quoted, was in the context of my concerns about changing the culture in America to understand the importance of the rights of the unborn.
Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series May 13, 2007

Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research
Q: Would you expand federal funding of embryonic stem cell research?

A: I believe that we need to fund this. This is a tough issue for those of us in the pro-life community. I would remind you that these stem cells are either going to be discarded or perpetually frozen. We need to do what we can to relieve human suffering. It's a tough issue. I support federal funding.
Source: 2007 GOP primary debate, at Reagan library, hosted by MSNBC May 3, 2007

Prosecute abortion doctors, not women who get them
On “Meet the Press,” McCain said he had “come to the conclusion that the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother are legitimate exceptions” to an outright ban on abortions. “I don’t claim to be a theologian, but I have my moral beliefs.” If Roe v. Wade is overturned and abortion outlawed, McCain said he believes doctors who performed abortions would be prosecuted. “But I would not prosecute a woman” who obtained an abortion.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A9 Jan 31, 2000

“Family Conference” if daughter wanted an abortion
KEYES [to McCain]: What you would say if your daughter was ever in a position where she might need an abortion? You answered [earlier today] that the choice would be up to her and then that you’d have a family conference. That displayed a profound lack of understanding of the basic issue of principle involved in abortion. After all, if your daughter said she was contemplating killing her grandmother for the inheritance, you wouldn’t say, “Let’s have a family conference.” You’d look at her and say “Just Say No,“ because that is morally wrong. It is God’s choice that that child is in the womb. And for us to usurp that choice in contradiction of our declaration of principles is just as wrong.

McCAIN: I am proud of my pro-life record in public life, and I will continue to maintain it. I will not draw my children into this discussion. As a leader of a pro-life party with a pro-life position, I will persuade young Americans [to] understand the importance of the preservation of the rights of the unborn.
Source: (X-ref from Keyes) GOP Debate in Manchester NH Jan 26, 2000

Abortion OK if raped; and no testing for rape
McCain was asked whether he would reinstate the Reagan era rule that prevents international family planning clinics that receive federal funds from discussing abortion. “I don’t believe they should advocate abortion with my tax dollars,” McCain said, adding that he opposed abortion except in cases of rape and incest. He was then asked how he would determine whether someone had in fact been raped. McCain responded, “I think that I would give the benefit of the doubt to the person who alleges that.”
Source: New York Times, p. A17 Jan 25, 2000

Supports fetal tissue research; against over-intensity
McCain was asked how he could be anti-abortion and still vote to support fetal tissue research. He supports fetal-tissue research, McCain said, because it has helped make progress against Parkinson’s disease. McCain concluded that abortion rights and anti-abortion activists should cooperate on issues of foster care and adoption. He had made his decision on abortion, he said, “after a lot of study, consultation, and a lot of prayer.” He added, “I’d like to have less intensity on this issue.”
Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000

Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions
McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000

Support adoption & foster care; work together on abortion
Q: Should Republicans encourage pro-choice voters to support their candidates?
A: We must begin a dialogue and a discussion on the issue of abortion. Both pro-life & pro-choice people believe very strongly that we need to eliminate abortion. I and my wife, Cindy, are proud adoptive parents. We need to encourage adoption in America. We need to improve foster care dramatically. We can work together. We can have respectful disagreements on specific issues, and we can work together on this one.
Source: Republican Debate at Dartmouth College Oct 29, 1999

Wants Roe vs. Wade made irrelevant, but would not repeal it
McCain said, “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” A spokesman said that McCain “has a 17-year voting record of supporting efforts to overturn Roe vs. Wade. He does that currently, and will continue to do that as president.”
Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999

Opposes partial-birth abortions & public financing
In a letter to the National Right to Life Committee, McCain detailed a long anti-abortion record, including his sponsorship of the effort to overturn President Clinton’s veto of a bill banning late-term procedures called “partial birth” abortions. He also has opposed public financing of abortions, except in cases of rape, incest or a threat to the mother’s life.
Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999

Nominate justices based on experience, and values
On the issue of nominating Supreme Court justices based on an abortion litmus-test, “McCain has said that he will nominate justices based on their experience, and those who share his values,” said a spokesman.
Source: Associated Press Jun 14, 1999

Restrict abortions; no partial-birth; no public funding

1. McCain supports the following statements:Abortions should be legal only when the pregnancy resulted from incest, rape, or when the life of the woman is endangered.
2. Prohibit the late-term abortion procedure known as “partial-birth” abortion.
3. Prohibit public funding of abortions and public funding of organizations that advocate or perform abortions.

Source: Project Vote Smart, 1998, Project Vote Smart - American Government, Elections, Candidates and Voting Jul 2, 1998

John McCain on Voting Record
Supports repealing Roe v. Wade
Q: Would the day that Roe v. Wade is repealed be a good day for America?

ROMNEY: Absolutely.

BROWNBACK: It would be a glorious day of human liberty and freedom.

GILMORE: Yes, it was wrongly decided.

HUCKABEE: Most certainly.

HUNTER: Yes.

THOMPSON: Yes.

McCAIN: A repeal.

GIULIANI: It would be OK to repeal.

TANCREDO: After 40 million dead because we have aborted them in this country, that would be the greatest day in this country's history when that, in fact, is overturned.
Source: 2007 GOP primary debate, at Reagan library, hosted by MSNBC May 3, 2007

Voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP.
CONGRESSIONAL SUMMARY: To require that legislation to reauthorize SCHIP include provisions codifying the unborn child regulation. Amends the definition of the term "targeted low-income child" to provide that such term includes the period from conception to birth, for eligibility for child health assistance.

SUPPORTER'S ARGUMENT FOR VOTING YES:Sen. ALLARD: This amendment will codify the current unborn child rule by amending the SCHIP reauthorization reserve fund. This amendment will clarify in statute that the term "child" includes the period from conception to birth. This is a pro-life vote.OPPONENT'S ARGUMENT FOR VOTING NO: Sen. FEINSTEIN: We already clarified SCHIP law that a pregnant woman's coverage under SCHIP law is optional. We made it obligatory so every pregnant woman has the advantage of medical insurance. This amendment undoes that. It takes it away from the woman and gives it to the fetus. Now, if a pregnant woman is in an accident, loses the child, she does not get coverage, the child gets coverage. We already solved the problem. If you cover the pregnant woman, you cover her fetus. What Senator Allard does is remove the coverage from the pregnant woman and cover the fetus.LEGISLATIVE OUTCOME:Amendment rejected, 46-52
Reference: Bill S.Amdt.4233 to S.Con.Res.70 ; vote number 08-S081 on Mar 14, 2008

Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions.
Vote on an amendment, S.AMDT.3330, to H.R.3043 (HHS Appropriations Bill): To prohibit the provision of funds to grantees who perform abortions, with exceptions for maternal health.

Proponents support voting YES because:

Sen. VITTER: Whatever side of the abortion debate you are on, we can all agree on one thing: Abortion is a very divisive topic. In that context, I think it is the right policy to say we are not going to send taxpayer dollars to support groups that perform abortions. Now, the other side will say: Well, we have current Federal law that says we are not going to use taxpayer dollars to fund abortions. But, quite frankly, that is not good enough. Because now, we send Federal dollars to abortion providers and money is fungible--it is a big shell game and it supports their organizations and, in many cases, that funding is a huge percentage of their overall revenue.

Letter of Support from Family Research Council:

Recent reports indicate that Planned Parenthood generated over $900 million in income in 2006, of which over $300 million came from government. We should not be sending taxpayer money to an organization such as Planned Parenthood that performs abortions. Your support for the Vitter amendment will uphold the principle that the US taxpayer should not have to subsidize the abortion industry.

Opponents recommend voting NO because:

Sen. BOXER: The Vitter amendment is "Big Brother" at its very worst. It tells non-governmental entities how they should spend their own private funds. This amendment punishes the very organizations that work hard every day using their own funds to provide family planning services and reproductive health care, including legal abortion services. If Sen. Vitter wants to deny these funds, he should work to outlaw all abortion. That is an honest way. But to punish a private organization that works to give women a full array of reproductive health care is really, I think, a very sorry idea.
Reference: Vitter Amendment to HHS/Education/Labor Appropriations; Bill S.Amdt. 3330 to H.R. 3043 ; vote number 2007-379 on Oct 18, 2007

Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines.
Allows federal funding for research that utilizes human embryonic stem cells, regardless of the date on which the stem cells were derived from a human embryo, provided such embryos:

1. have been donated from in vitro fertilization clinics;
2. were created for the purposes of fertility treatment;
3. were in excess of the needs of the individuals seeking such treatment and would otherwise be discarded; and
4. were donated by such individuals with written informed consent and without any financial or other inducements.

Proponents support voting YES because:

Since 2 years ago, the last Stem Cell bill, public support has surged for stem cells. Research is proceeding unfettered and, in some cases, without ethical standards in other countries. And even when these countries have ethical standards, our failures are allowing them to gain the scientific edge over the US. Some suggest that it is Congress' role to tell researchers what kinds of cells to use. I suggest we are not the arbiters of research. Instead, we should foster all of these methods, and we should adequately fund and have ethical oversight over all ethical stem cell research.

Opponents support voting NO because:

A good deal has changed in the world of science. Amniotic fluid stem cells are now available to open a broad new area of research. I think the American people would welcome us having a hearing to understand more about this promising new area of science. As it stands today, we will simply have to debate the bill on the merits of information that is well over 2 years old, and I think that is unfortunate.

The recent findings of the pluripotent epithelial cells demonstrates how quickly the world has changed. Wouldn't it be nice to have the researcher before our committee and be able to ask those questions so we may make the best possible judgment for the American people?
Status: Vetoed by Pres. Bush Bill passed, 63-34
Reference: Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act; Bill S.5 & H.R.3 ; vote number 2007-127 on Apr 11, 2007

Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
This bill prohibits taking minors across State lines in circumvention of laws requiring the involvement of parents in abortion decisions. Makes an exception for an abortion necessary to save the life of the minor. Authorizes any parent to sue unless such parent committed an act of incest with the minor. Imposes a fine and/or prison term of up to one year on a physician who performs an abortion on an out-of-state minor in violation of parental notification requirements in their home state.

Proponents recommend voting YES because:

This bill deals with how young girls are being secretly taken across State lines for the purpose of abortion, without the consent of their parents or even the knowledge of their parents, in violation of the laws of the State in which they live. 45 states have enacted some sort of parental consent laws or parental notification law. By simply secreting a child across State lines, one can frustrate the State legislature's rules. It is subverting and defeating valid, constitutionally approved rights parents have.

Opponents recommend voting NO because:

Some States have parental consent laws, some don't. In my particular State, it has been voted down because my people feel that if you ask them, "Do they want their kids to come to their parents?", absolutely. But if you ask them, "Should you force them to do so, even in circumstances where there could be trouble that comes from that?", they say no.

This bill emanates from a desire that our children come to us when we have family matters, when our children are in trouble, that they not be fearful, that they not be afraid that they disappoint us, that they be open with us and loving toward us, and we toward them. This is what we want to have happen. The question is: Can Big Brother Federal Government force this on our families? That is where we will differ.
Reference: Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act; Bill S.403 ; vote number 2006-216 on Jul 25, 2006

Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives.
Vote to adopt an amendment to the Senate's 2006 Fiscal Year Budget that allocates $100 million for the prevention of unintended pregnancies. A YES vote would expand access to preventive health care services that reduce unintended pregnancy (including teen pregnancy), reduce the number of abortions, and improve access to women's health care. A YES vote would:

* Increase funding and access to family planning services
* Funds legislation that requires equitable prescription coverage for contraceptives under health plans
* Funds legislation that would create and expand teen pregnancy prevention programs and education programs concerning emergency contraceptives

Reference: Appropriation to expand access to preventive health care services; Bill S.Amdt. 244 to S Con Res 18 ; vote number 2005-75 on Mar 17, 2005

Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime.
Bill would make it a criminal offense to harm or kill a fetus during the commission of a violent crime. The measure would set criminal penalties, the same as those that would apply if harm or death happened to the pregnant woman, for those who harm a fetus. It is not required that the individual have prior knowledge of the pregnancy or intent to harm the fetus. This bill prohibits the death penalty from being imposed for such an offense. The bill states that its provisions should not be interpreted to apply a woman's actions with respect to her pregnancy.
Reference: Unborn Victims of Violence Act; Bill S.1019/HR.1997 ; vote number 2004-63 on Mar 25, 2004

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life.
S. 3 As Amended; Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. Vote to pass a bill banning a medical procedure, which is commonly known as "partial-birth" abortion. Those who performed this procedure would then face fines and up to two years in prison, the women to whom this procedure is performed on are not held criminally liable. This bill would make the exception for cases in which a women's life is in danger, not for cases where a women's health is in danger.
Reference: Bill S.3 ; vote number 2003-51 on Mar 12, 2003

Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions.
Vote on a motion to table [kill] an amendment that would repeal the ban on privately funded abortions at overseas military facilities.
Reference: Bill S 2549 ; vote number 2000-134 on Jun 20, 2000

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions.
This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion. [A NO vote supports abortion rights].
Status: Bill Passed Y)63; N)34; NV)3
Reference: Partial Birth Abortion Ban; Bill S. 1692 ; vote number 1999-340 on Oct 21, 1999

Voted YES on banning human cloning.
This cloture motion was in order to end debate and move to consideration of legislation banning human cloning. [A YES vote opposes human cloning].
Status: Cloture Motion Rejected Y)42; N)54; NV)4
Reference: Motion to invoke cloture on motion to proceed to S. 1601; Bill S. 1601 ; vote number 1998-10 on Feb 11, 1998

Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record.
McCain scores 0% by NARAL on pro-choice voting record

For over thirty years, NARAL Pro-Choice America has been the political arm of the pro-choice movement and a strong advocate of reproductive freedom and choice. NARAL Pro-Choice America's mission is to protect and preserve the right to choose while promoting policies and programs that improve women's health and make abortion less necessary. NARAL Pro-Choice America works to educate Americans and officeholders about reproductive rights and health issues and elect pro-choice candidates at all levels of government. The NARAL ratings are based on the votes the organization considered most important; the numbers reflect the percentage of time the representative voted the organization's preferred position.
Source: NARAL website 03n-NARAL on Dec 31, 2003

Expand embryonic stem cell research.
McCain signed a letter from 58 Senators to the President

Dear Mr. President:

We write to urge you to expand the current federal policy concerning embryonic stem cell research.

Embryonic stem cells have the potential to be used to treat and better understand deadly and disabling diseases and conditions that affect more than 100 million Americans, such as cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injury, and many others.

We appreciate your words of support for the enormous potential of this research, and we know that you intended your policy to help promote this research to its fullest. As you know, the Administration's policy limits federal funding only to embryonic stem cells that were derived by August 9, 2001.

However, scientists have told us that since the policy went into effect more than two years ago, we have learned that the embryonic stem cell lines eligible for federal funding will not be suitable to effectively promote this research. We therefore feel it is essential to relax the restrictions in the current policy for this research to be fully explored.

Among the difficult challenges with the current policy are the following:

* While it originally appeared that 78 embryonic stem cell lines would be available for research, only 19 are available to researchers.
* All available stem cell lines are contaminated with mouse feeder cells, making their therapeutic use for humans uncertain.
* It is increasingly difficult to attract new scientists to this area of research because of concerns that funding restrictions will keep this research from being successful.
* Despite the fact that U.S. scientists were the first to derive human embryonic stem cells, leadership in this area of research is shifting to other countries.

We would very much like to work with you to modify the current embryonic stem cell policy so that it provides this area of research the greatest opportunity to lead to the treatments and cures for which we are all hoping.
Source: Letter from 58 Senators to the President 04-SEN8 on Jun 4, 2004

Rated 75% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion.
McCain scores 75% by the NRLC on abortion issues

OnTheIssues.org interprets the 2006 NRLC scores as follows:

* 0% - 15%: pro-choice stance (approx. 174 members)
* 16%- 84%: mixed record on abortion (approx. 101 members)
* 85%-100%: pro-life stance (approx. 190 members)

About the NRLC (from their website, www.nrlc.org):

The ultimate goal of the National Right to Life Committee is to restore legal protection to innocent human life. The primary interest of the National Right to Life Committee and its members has been the abortion controversy; however, it is also concerned with related matters of medical ethics which relate to the right to life issues of euthanasia and infanticide. The Committee does not have a position on issues such as contraception, sex education, capital punishment, and national defense. The National Right to Life Committee was founded in 1973 in response to the Roe vs. Wade Supreme Court decision, legalizing the practice of human abortion in all 50 states, throughout the entire nine months of pregnancy.

The NRLC has been instrumental in achieving a number of legislative reforms at the national level, including a ban on non-therapeutic experimentation of unborn and newborn babies, a federal conscience clause guaranteeing medical personnel the right to refuse to participate in abortion procedures, and various amendments to appropriations bills which prohibit (or limit) the use of federal funds to subsidize or promote abortions in the United States and overseas.

In addition to maintaining a lobbying presence at the federal level, NRLC serves as a clearinghouse of information for its state affiliates and local chapters, its individual members, the press, and the public.


Google 1 Khorum 0
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
I'd elaborate on what I said since you obviously took it wrong, but I don't believe that you're stupid enough to not get what I was saying. The very next sentence qualifies the statement.

I see now. You're one of those people that looks for reasons to be offended. It must be frustrating to go through life like that.
Sharmai is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:16 PM   #1956 (permalink)
Simas
Say word
 
Simas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,252
-25 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorum View Post
McCain is a life-long pro-choicer, Simas.
Look dont treat me like some idiot that cant type in johnmccain.com on his web broswer

"John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. "

From fucking John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

In the interest of full disclosure it does go on to say he wishes Roe v. Wade overturned so the states can decide. Which is a great idea, poor women from alabama will cert. make the trip out to california to get an abortion instead of opting for an illegal and unsafe abortion in their home state. Fuck state's rights.
__________________
Destroyer

Last edited by Simas : 06-11-2008 at 02:27 PM.
Simas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:23 PM   #1957 (permalink)
Khorum
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,166
-23 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharmai View Post
Warning wall of text on McCains voting record. Read first one to see McCains pro-life stance.
and the public.

Google 1 Khorum 0
Why then did the ULTRA-RIGHT MORAL MAJORITY reject John McCain's candidacy based on his refusal to ban abortion? That doesn't makes sense..

Oh yeah it does, that's because John McCain REFUSES to ban abortion and the radical religious right have declared their hatred of him before the primaries even started. McCain's voting record remains consistent with a constitutionalist approach to abortion---including Ron Paul---which seeks to return plenary power back to the STATES.

So how do we explain that article? Oh that's right, it's because you're a fucking RETARD.
Khorum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:24 PM   #1958 (permalink)
Soriak
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,325
+15 Internets
Soriak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:25 PM   #1959 (permalink)
I'm Rich Bitch
My middle name is "Hussein".
 
I'm Rich Bitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,434
-73 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by [LVC]DeGrassi View Post
Wish we could put Bill back in office for 8 years.

Theres something about Obama that just pisses me off, its probably that the retards voting for him on every forum out there put his god damn fucking picture as there avatar. I'm voting for John this year just on that alone. I dont like either one of them period, but that avatar thing just irks me.
Voting for McCain because Obama supporters put his picture in their forum posts? Well at least you are well versed on the issues Sir. Sounds as good as any other reason to vote for McCain. You certainly meet my criteria for McCain supporters. You are one of the more intelligent ones.
I'm Rich Bitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:27 PM   #1960 (permalink)
I'm Rich Bitch
My middle name is "Hussein".
 
I'm Rich Bitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,434
-73 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simas View Post
Look dont treat me like some idiot that cant type in johnmccain.com on his web broswer

"John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. "

From fucking John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President
It is hard to keep up with McCain's flip flops. The old McCain was pro-choice. The new McCain is McBush.
I'm Rich Bitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:28 PM   #1961 (permalink)
Tea on tuesday
Registered User
 
Tea on tuesday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,463
+15 Internets
edit: beaten.

Last edited by Tea on tuesday : 06-11-2008 at 02:42 PM.
Tea on tuesday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:29 PM   #1962 (permalink)
Arbitrary
Badger Diplomacy
 
Arbitrary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Dairy State
Posts: 5,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soriak View Post
Yes?
__________________
____________
Stupid is a strong horse. It can be ridden far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwhacky
Why do we need to add tax incentive for car companies to move away from gas cars? They already have an incentive, it's called not going out of fucking business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neferata View Post
Words. Bold, italicized, CAPITALIZED, red, underlined WORDS. - Khorum
Arbitrary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:40 PM   #1963 (permalink)
[LVC]DeGrassi
I love Scotch.
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: La Verne, Ca
Posts: 256
+0 Internets
Send a message via AIM to [LVC]DeGrassi
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch View Post
Voting for McCain because Obama supporters put his picture in their forum posts? Well at least you are well versed on the issues Sir. Sounds as good as any other reason to vote for McCain. You certainly meet my criteria for McCain supporters. You are one of the more intelligent ones.
I dont support him, I dont like alot of things he stands for, but having to see obamas fucking picture everywhere I go on the net made my vote go for Mccain, hell actually I probably wont vote at all. I just find it retarded that people actually put Obamas picture as there avatar, just bothers the fuck out of me for some reason.
[LVC]DeGrassi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:43 PM   #1964 (permalink)
Khorum
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,166
-23 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simas View Post
Look dont treat me like some idiot that cant type in johnmccain.com on his web broswer

"John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. "

From fucking John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President
No, you've graduated to just some idiot who can't read more than one paragraph. I like how you fucking changed the URL to the toplevel page so folks would have to drill down to find the ACTUAL article and discover McCain's constitutionalist stance:
Quote:
John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.
Care to count how many LEGAL abortion doctors where shot in New York and Los Angeles in 1967, four years before Roe V. Wade? Care to decide how many pastors, priests and evangelists marched to Washington back in 1964 when Abortion was perfectly legal in California and Oregon? Back when the STATES still retained their authority to govern according to the distinct moral and social values of their citizens?

How many people do you think bug out about Legal Gambling in New Jersey now? How many people beat their chests and march their children in protest of legal prostitution in Nevada? They don't because they don't HAVE to. Prior to Roe V. Wade the states had a similar mosaic of abortion laws that were consistent with the social, economic and cultural distinctions of their community.

Then one morning in 1971, ALL of the states of the Union were deprived of their constitutional rights to govern their citizens according to the plenary powers guaranteed them by the founders and the Abortion debate has raged ever since. Nine unelected men and women exceeded their authority and imposed their moral outlook on all the states.

There is no judicial remedy to abortion, just a remedy to the constitutional harm Roe v. Wade has done. Whether it be by referendum or by judicial appointees, the excess of federal authority must be addressed.
Khorum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2008, 02:43 PM   #1965 (permalink)
Simas
Say word
 
Simas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,252
-25 Internets
Quote:
Originally Posted by [LVC]DeGrassi View Post
I dont support him, I dont like alot of things he stands for, but having to see obamas fucking picture everywhere I go on the net made my vote go for Mccain, hell actually I probably wont vote at all. I just find it retarded that people actually put Obamas picture as there avatar, just bothers the fuck out of me for some reason.
I think this is commonly known as "hating"

Not saying youre right or wrong, just defining it.

/edit Khorum, I edited my post prior to your response. Scroll on up. To be clear I have no problem with states deciding to allow gambling or not, thats fine with me. Certain issues should not be left up to states though, those issues include inner-racial marriage, voting rights, segregation of schools, etc etc. The federal gov't should decide our base line of rights, if state then want to increase those rights cool, but i believe in a firm federal base line that includes the right to abortion. Lets not derail this off of state's right and into the rights and wrongs of abortions however, that discussion belongs in a seperate thread.
__________________
Destroyer

Last edited by Simas : 06-11-2008 at 02:57 PM.
Simas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
uberguilds network



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6