McCain vs. Obama

[Scientologist]

Originally Posted by Chips

I was lol'ing where Obama during the primaries said he would accept public money and now he says he wont.

Typical flip flopper, change your stance when it suits your needs.

Yo dude, I got a secret for you. Every politician is a flip flopper. At least every serious presidential candidate is.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Etoille

Sen. McCain offers $300 million prize for new auto battery - Yahoo! News

The 300 million part is just retarded pandering. Theres probably billions being spent all around the world by private companies on battery research. Probably more, now that i think about it.

However after reading the article I found something quite interesting and probably will affect change. In addition to the $300 million for the battery he wants to give everyone a $5k tax credit for zero emission vehicles.

That makes vehicles like the Aptera Type 1e (the all electric model) look very tempting. 26,800 (give take a grand or two) - $5,000 is cheaper then an accord. It's also very practical for people who travel the range supported by the electric only model.

"Think" or however they pronounce themselves are beginning to make some interesting electric cars too.

[Zora]

Originally Posted by Chips

I was lol'ing where Obama during the primaries said he would accept public money and now he says he wont.

Typical flip flopper, change your stance when it suits your needs.

I want a candidate/president who can change if the situation warrants it, rather than someone like Bush who sticks by his policies even when the whole world can see that they're seriously flawed. Life and the world aren't static. I actually think Obama's decision was a good one given how much he has changed the face of campaign finance forever in a positive way.

Someone asked a TV commentator what was the difference between flip flopping and changing policies when it might be justified given changing circumstances. The response in essence:

Flip flop is what the opposing candidate does.

Change is what your candidate does.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Chips

I was lol'ing where Obama during the primaries said he would accept public money and now he says he wont.

Typical flip flopper, change your stance when it suits your needs.

So you think this change will affect any votes? I don't think so. McCain has flip flopped on every position he has had since the year 2000 so he has no leg to stand on. Plus no one cares about campaign finances. Not taking public money was a brilliant political move since he will have to counter the "He is a nigger.", "He is a Muslim." ads from the Republicans. No swift boating is going to happen this year buddy. Not this time, not this election.

Not only that, but the McCain campaign sees its only hope is a terrorist attack so McCain can steal the White House.

Charlie Black, in an interview with Fortune, said "a fresh terrorist attack 'certainly would be a big advantage to him.'" Black also "said that the December assassination of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, while 'unfortunate,' helped McCain win the Republican primary by focusing attention on national security."

Not only is this a idiotic statement from a top McCain advisor but shows the mindset of the Republicans. In addition it is a false statement since a new terrorist attack would mean that Bush' fascist policies did not work and John McCain is lock step with Bush on them. This would reinforce that we need a change.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Etoille

Sen. McCain offers $300 million prize for new auto battery - Yahoo! News

Gas tax reduction, drilling in Florida, and now a $300 million prize for a battery. This old geezer has more gimmicks than an American car from the 1970s.

[Kolle]

if you want to compare flip flops or changes of position then mccain loses that without question. you can bash obama for switching to no public money, but it's not like you can go running into mccain's arms without being a hypocrite. with that said i completely support his choice. it was the best thing to do.

[Sunder]

McCain had a moment of clarity during his campaign in Fresno, CA, and admitted that off-shore drilling would do very little to affect the price of oil in the short term. In fact, the only reason he is even proposing this now is a "psychological benefit" that he thinks tracks in his favor. This guy is pandering and begging for votes at this point. It's rather pathetic.

"In the short term I'd like to give you a little relief for the summer on the gas tax," McCain began, referring to his controversial proposal to temporarily suspend the federal tax on gasoline. But then he made a surprisingly candid admission: "I don't see an immediate relief, but I do see that exploitation of existing reserves that may exist -- and in view of many experts that do exist off our coasts -- is also a way that we need to provide relief. Even though it may take some years, the fact that we are exploiting those reserves would have psychological impact that I think is beneficial."

Obama/McCain: 'Psychological' benefit? - First Read - msnbc.com

[Soriak]

McCain uses Ebay as a model for future jobs: Bloomberg.com: Politics - McCain's EBay Model for Jobs Finds Few Buyers Among Economists

Too bad selling used junk doesn't do anything for the GDP. But don't tell him that: (same article)

McCain may not accept such criticism. He has shown increasing disdain for any economist who questions his policy prescriptions. Earlier this month, he lashed out at critics of his proposal for a summer gas-tax holiday.

``You know the economists?'' McCain said June 12 at Federal Hall, near the New York Stock Exchange. ``They're the same ones that didn't predict this housing crisis we're in. They're the same ones that didn't predict the dot-com meltdown. They're the same ones that didn't predict the inflation that's staring us in the face today.''

You go, gramps.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Soriak

McCain uses Ebay as a model for future jobs: Bloomberg.com: Politics - McCain's EBay Model for Jobs Finds Few Buyers Among Economists

Too bad selling used junk doesn't do anything for the GDP. But don't tell him that: (same article)



You go, gramps.

/offtopic

You know if they are going to start proposing models for future jobs then how about more integration towards working from home jobs? Big problem with kids these days is parents just not being around enough and both parents spending all their time working. They are stressed out as is and then come home and don't want to deal with raising their kids.

I mean I do get there are to big logistical problems with it such as getting people to work responsibly at home and bad parenting is bad parenting but still there have to be mental and social benefits to it.

Mabye a half/home half/at work type jobs anyway..

[Araxen]

The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

You know if they are going to start proposing models for future jobs then how about more integration towards working from home jobs?

Some jobs can be done from home and I think we'll see more of that. People might even be willing to take a pay cut to work from home: more time for the kids, no commuting, saves money on gas and, if they can get away with one instead of two cars, on insurance. The company also saves money since they'll need less office space.

I don't know what the government can or should do to encourage this, it'd seem to be attractive for businesses already.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Soriak

McCain uses Ebay as a model for future jobs: Bloomberg.com: Politics - McCain's EBay Model for Jobs Finds Few Buyers Among Economists

This is laughable. Some "hip" member of his campaign staff must have told him this. McCain does not know what eBay is. He can not use a computer. This is pitiful. Obama has had an inconsistent debate performance but I look forward to the ones with McCain.

The problem is becoming that McCain is really invisible. This guy is not on TV or talked about on Radio or any other media outlet. If people can start to see him his polls will fall. Where the hell is McCain and why does the media ignore him? It is now Obama 98% of the news and McCain 2%. Nobody cares about this guy except maybe his mother and Cindy...maybe.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Chips

I was lol'ing where Obama during the primaries said he would accept public money and now he says he wont.

Typical flip flopper, change your stance when it suits your needs.

List of McCain Flip Flops:

1. McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now he’s against it.
2. McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.
3. McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.
4. McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)
5. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.
6. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.
7. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”
8. McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.
9. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.
10. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.
11. McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.
12. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.
13. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.
14. He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.
15. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.
16. He wanted political support from radical televangelists like John Hagee and Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.
17. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.
18. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”
19. McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.
20. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.
21. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.
22. McCain has changed his economic worldview on multiple occasions.
23. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions.
24. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.
25. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off than they were before Bush took office.
26. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.
27. McCain believes his endorsement from radical televangelist John Hagee was both a good and bad idea.
28. McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.
29. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal.
30. In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.
31. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
32. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.
33. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation.
34. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.
35. McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
36. McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
37. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.
38. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.
39. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
40. McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
41. On a related note, he said 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and insisted he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.
42. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
43. McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.
44. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
45. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
46. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
47. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
48. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

There are more and I will provide them for your convenience. It is hard to wear that elephant costume on the outside when there is a donkey kicking on the inside.

[Kuriin]

I know doesn't pertain to McCain, but since this thread is also about Obama, I figured I'd post it here rather than make a new thread:

Evangelist accuses Obama of 'distorting' Bible - CNN.com

- A top U.S. evangelical leader is accusing Sen. Barack Obama of deliberately distorting the Bible and taking a "fruitcake interpretation" of the U.S. Constitution.
James Dobson says Barack Obama is distorting bibical teachings to fit "his own confused theology."

James Dobson says Barack Obama is distorting bibical teachings to fit "his own confused theology."

In comments to be aired on his radio show Tuesday, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson criticizes the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee for comments he made in a June 2006 speech to the liberal Christian group Call to Renewal.

In the speech, Obama suggests it would be impractical to govern based solely on the word of the Bible, noting some passages suggest slavery is permissible and eating shellfish is disgraceful.

"Which passages of scripture should guide our public policy?" Obama asks in the speech. "Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount?

"So before we get carried away, let's read our Bible now," Obama also said to cheers. "Folks haven't been reading their Bible."

He also calls Jesus' Sermon on the Mount "a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our Defense Department would survive its application."

In the comments to be aired later Tuesday, Dobson said Obama should not be referencing antiquated dietary codes and passages from the Old Testament that are no longer relevant to the teachings of the New Testament. Video Listen to Dobson blast Obama's biblical interpretations »
Who is James Dobson?

* Influential evangelical leader
* Founder and chairman of Focus on the Family
* Radio commentaries heard by more than 220 million people each day
* Seen on 60 television stations in U.S. each day
* Had backed former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee for president
* Has been critical of John McCain


"I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own world view, his own confused theology," Dobson said, later adding that Obama is "dragging biblical understanding through the gutter."

Responding to the comments, Joshua DuBois, Obama's national director of religious affairs, said the Illinois senator is "committed to reaching out to people of faith and standing up for American families."

"A full reading of his 2006 Call to Renewal speech shows just that," DuBois also said. "Obama is proud to have the support of millions of Americans of faith and looks forward to working across religious lines to bring our country together."

The comments come shortly after DuBois called Focus on the Family to suggest a meeting with the group ahead of the Democratic Party's convention in late August, according to Tom Minnery, the organization's senior vice president for government and public policy.

Minnery wouldn't say if any such meeting is planned, but said the group is open to it.

Dobson also takes aim at Obama for suggesting in the speech that those motivated by religion should attempt to appeal to broader segments of the population by not just framing their arguments around religious precepts.

"Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal rather than religion-specific values," Obama said. "It requires their proposals be subject to argument and amenable to reason."

Dobson said the suggestion is an attempt to lead by the "lowest common denominator of morality."
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"Am I required in a democracy to conform my efforts in the political arena to his bloody notion of what is right with regard to the lives of tiny babies?" he said. "What he's trying to say here is unless everybody agrees, we have no right to fight for what we believe."

"What the senator is saying there, in essence, is that 'I can't seek to pass legislation, for example, that bans partial-birth abortion, because there are people in the culture who don't see that as a moral issue," Dobson also said. "And if I can't get everyone to agree with me, than it is undemocratic to try to pass legislation that I find offensive to the Scripture. Now that is a fruitcake interpretation of the Constitution."

According to Minnery, Dobson was particularly offended by a portion of the speech in which Obama mentions the evangelical leader and the Rev. Al Sharpton.

In the speech, Obama said: "Even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's?"

In response, Minnery said: "Many people have called him [Sharpton] a black racist, and he [Obama] is somehow equating [Dobson] with that and racial bigotry."

Dobson's comments follow the Obama campaign's recent efforts to increase its appeal among evangelicals, many of whom have expressed reservations about supporting Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee.

Dobson himself has said he will not vote for the Arizona senator.

In an interview with CNN, Minnery said he doesn't expect Obama to make inroads into the reliably Republican voting bloc.

"Evangelicals are people who take Bible interpretation very seriously, and the sort of speech he gave shows that he is worlds away in the views of evangelicals," he said.
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Minnery also said Dobson will probably continue his criticism of Obama in the future.

"Given our fact that religion seems to be such a relevant topic in this election again, we will defend the evangelical view vigorously," he sai

[Tristinn]

Christ Almighty.. coming from Dobson, you could not only cut through the hypocrisy in that statement, you could cook it and serve it to a fucking army.