McCain vs. Obama

[Kaio]

Rofl, I doubt many moderates take any news source as gospel. I was probably twelve when I saw new york times botch up tech articles. You have to be able to cut the bullshit from any news source and find facts.

Fox just has an amazing way to surround themselves with more bullshit then most cable news. They bring in the most ridiculous experts and guests for commentary from fucking Jack Thompson to that asian lady who joked about Obama getting assassinated.

I guess MSNBC's getting closer to it but realistically if you take out Olbermann 80% of the reason to call them left leaning.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

Right which is totally awesome. Even when they are $90 million dollars over budget and never get finished. Hey, no biggie I'm sure the Iraqi government didn't mind. I heard some of the Iraqi workers were killed on site so I can't take issue with a little cost over-run here and there.

They just also happened to make petrochemical plants for Saddam.

Yeah, we built refineries and bridges for the Chinese too... OMG BECHTEL ARE COMMIES. Also, Bechtel built airports and hospitals in Pinochet's Peru. OMG BECHTEL ARE FASCISTS.

Get a fucking grip dude. You wanna know who ELSE built infrastructure for Saddam? You wanna complain about a "milk factory" when your beloved French built their fucking nuclear program. You want to complain about a reconstruction contract for roads and bridges when It was a Canadian body that developed Saddam's supergun?.

So let's get this straight, it doesn't fucking matter that Bechtel is one of the largest contributors to college scholarships in Africa. It doesn't matter that they've built hundreds of schools and hospitals for free in Africa and India. All that matters is that they're a "military-industrial" complex member and your eternally sandy vajayjay will never be pleased unless their whole enterprised is dismantled right?

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

I could care less who is on the board and like I said thats really cool that they built the CHUNNEL. Great stuff. It's just too bad you turn a complete blind-eye to the fact they tried to build shit for Saddam before we didn't like him.

When did I EVER fucking turn a blind eye to the fact that they turned a blind eye to ANYTHING? What fucking "blind eye" did I turn to Bechtel's past, exactly? Remember when you squealed and howled about how Mossadeqh was ALL ABOUT OIL about how we went in and raped the nationalist aspirations of a state that allied itself with Adolf Hitler less than a decade prior to Ajax? Except... except... we didn't seem to give a shit when SADDAM nationalized all of the oil facilities and terminals in Iraq now did we. Guess who built the Basra terminal, jackass. You think Bechtel had a fucking say what gets to happen during their contracts or something?

What a retarded bullshit dodge for getting caught with more of your hamfisted, myopic attempt at a gotcha. You wanted to throw down about where my sympathies really laid about the Kurds and now after getting your inchoate provinciality thrown back at you, you're gonna resort to MORE of the exact same kneejerk non-conformity that you gobble down as uncritically as with every overpriced vegan snack you waste your parent's money on.

So where were YOU injured by the executive excesses of this administration huh? It's clear you don't give a shit about seeing the Kurdish people emerge from the 80-year exile imposed on them by the greedy victors of WW1, you're just willing to say and do ANYTHING to protect the totalitarian Iranian fucks who hang helpless little faggots like you every single day.

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

No.

What you have shown is that other Muslims might consider Obama a murtadd under Muslim law, but that does not make it so no matter how much you wish it were true.

MIGHT consider him a... this ISN'T a subjective case here, the hadith is clear. He was born to a muslim man and invoked the Shahadah as a speaking child, fulfilling all the conditions for profession of the faith under Al'llm and Al'Ikhlaas. Do you have some OTHER interpretation of this earliest suras of the hadith, which happens to be common among shia and sunni in every place in Dar al Islam?

He's can consider himself a christian, that's fine. But the fact remains that under the traditions cherished by 1.5 billion people on this earth, the muslims radical and moderate who prayed the same prayers and served the same god as Barack Hussein Obama did during the first 29 of his 46 years did, he is a muslim. Under the traditions of his polygamist father and the grandfather who helped usher in the Kenyatta regime, he is a murtadd.

It's true whether I wish it so or NOT. It's been true for every muslim convert for 1,400 years. It's been true about Salman Rushdie, it's been true about Wafa Sultan, it's been true for Khalid Duran and it's true for Barack Hussein Obama.

The ONLY person wishing reality to be any other way than it is around here is YOU. I don't see any reason for Obama to be ashamed of his heritage, FAR FROM IT. I've admired the muslim tradition and have been more than a little amused when hopeless little cunts like you are determined to throttle the truth when you can't seem to brush it out of attention.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Crtical Dodge!

I never called Bechtel fascists, commies or even evil. I just pointed out that they (they being your employer) have had more dealings with radical Muslims and enemies of the United States than the man you are lying about right now. You have had more direct dealings with radical Wahhabism that Barack Obama. You see where I'm going here you straight out of left field wingnut?

I'm glad you brought up the French and Canadians but seeing as I don't work for those companies, I fail to see why I should care. I'm not the only leveling false charges against someone for working with radical Muslims. You are. You cry to the heavens that Barack has worked with people that worked with Saddam and has other ties to radical Muslims, but this entire time, it is you who are benefiting from ties to Saddam and radical Muslims. Bring up every goddamn contractor that has ever worked in Iraq and that still does not change the fact that you are lying about a man for having ties that it turns out, are ties you have.

Who's projecting what again?

Feel free to bring up all that other shit you were wrong about too. Hell why don't you link it so other people can read another thread of you being wrong again. I don't think it has gotten old just yet.

Originally Posted by Khorum

MIGHT consider him a... this ISN'T a subjective case here, the hadith is clear. He was born to a muslim man and invoked the Shahadah as a speaking child, fulfilling all the conditions for profession under Al'llm and Al'Ikhlaas. Do you have some OTHER interpretation of this earliest suras of the hadith, which happens to be common among shia and sunni in every place in Dar al Islam?

See this is where you are flat out lying.

Under your own conditions, calling Obamas father a Muslim is false, because he himself would be an apostate who left Islam long before Barack was even born. So that makes Barack the son of a Christian woman and a secular Muslim apostate (but the apostate part is only for those that follow Islamic law). I mean, thats pretty concrete right there dude. Barack is sure looking more and more like Osama every step of the way, but it gets better. In order for Barack to even be considered an apostate, he would have had to be practicing Islamic law in both speech and deed, after the age of 15.

He never did and you have no proof that he ever did. So he cannot be an apostate even by the very law you claim to know so much about.

Originally Posted by Khorum

The ONLY person wishing reality to be any other way than it is around here is YOU.

Like I said before, I could care less what religion he is and your little game of trying to make me look as if I should be ashamed of his heritage is transparent and everyone here knows it.


There really is only one way to settle this Khorum.

Empire Total War.

You pussied out on MTWII and that shit ain't going to fly again. I just hope the Thirteen Colonies can muster up a fleet strong enough to face the might of the Almighty Prophets Mughal Armada. You might have to enlist the help of Louis XV.

[Araxen]

Screamfeeder > Khorum? discuss..

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

I never called Bechtel fascists, commies or even evil. I just pointed out that they (they being your employer) have had more dealings with radical Muslims and enemies of the United States than the man you are lying about right now. You have had more direct dealings with radical Wahhabism that Barack Obama. You see where I'm going here you straight out of left field wingnut?

Feel free to bring up all that other shit you were wrong about too. Hell why don't you link it so other people can read another thread of you being wrong again. I don't think it has gotten old just yet.

LMAO where do you even THINK you proved me or even ANYONE wrong you useless fucking degenerate. Was it your insipid insistence about the "painted rust" fallacy where you got on your fucking high-horse and pretended that the soviets weren't ever a nuclear threat? Was it when you vaccillated about the role Liberation Theology had in winning the central-American struggle against communism? Was it Mossadeqh and Ajax?

Was it your continuous and retarded faux pas about "EMPIRICALISM". HAHAHHA.

LOL, yeah, you bet I'll keep bringing it up so long as you persist in pretending to be anything other than the pretentious vegan poseur you have ALWAYS been and nothing more. Between fagging shit up with your tips on sustainable living and macrobiotic monkey-jizz diets, you've inflicted the same rote second-hand indignity your entire generations spews like a fucking mantra. Yet YOU wanna talk about shit getting old?

The ONLY dealings I've had with wahhabbist TERRORISTS were at the business end of my rifle. The men and women I've worked with in the gulf region were good, honest, driven people of whom every single one was infinitely more educated and informed than you.

It's true, I actually DO know wahhabbists, but that's something I've mentioned before. They're just muslim activists who believe that wahhabbist fundamentalism is a important component of pan-islamism, the old dream of a unified Ummah. They didn't advocate violence or terrorism and loathed it as much as good Christians recoil in disgust from Creationists. I disagreed with their ideas and let them know it, but that's what sincerity means. Sure, I've known LOTS of muslim activists and I'm proud to consider many of them friends, but they despise and revile the extremists of their culture as much and often more than I do.

I've ALSO met Tony Rezko (Rezmar was a prominent development contractor in Chicago and I've written RFP's for competing bids against him) and THAT guy is much MUCH closer to a radical arab terrorist than any muslim I've met and worked with in the gulf. And Rezko was Christian, just like Obama purports to be. Rezko mingled with and funnelled money for KNOWN (and convicted) radical sympathizers like Kamil Serizi and Nadhmi Auchi who was convicted as Saddam's Accomplice back in the 60's. I opposed Rezko's influence in every state and county project I worked in yet he kept muscling his puppets like Obama apply political pressure so he could get a piece of the taxpayer's business always with identically disastrous results.

Unlike Obama I never sat on the board of the Woods Fund, which was founded by Palestinian-Terror supporter and close Obama friend Rashid Khalidi. I never associated with convicted members of the radical anti-american terror organization Weather Underground like Obama did and I never ascribed to, personally supported and attended the sermons of Jeremiah Wright, who not ONLY preaches black separatism along with Louis Farrakhan daily, but even toured the rogue nations capitals with Farrakhan, going as far as sitting in a huddle with Libya's Muahmar Qadafi.

I guess it shouldn't be surprising that a hapless dilletante living life vicariously through this internet porn pipe like you would invariably regard ANYONE with any acquaintances in the muslim world suspect. You preach multiculturalism and tolerance even as you unwittingly ladle the worst stereotype of "wahhabbist terrorists" on everyone in region. Not ONLY are the wahhabbists only one fraction radical islamism, but the most dangerous expression of Jihadist Ideology isn't even SUNNI, it's the shiite Islamic Revolution that's determined to destroy all infidel life on this planet.... but you're MORE than happy to "turn a blind eye" to them aren't you?

Luckily, the rest of us are not.

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

See this is where you are flat out lying.

Under your own conditions, calling Obamas father a Muslim is false, because he himself would be an apostate who left Islam long before Barack was even born. So that makes Barack the son of a Christian woman and a secular Muslim apostate (but the apostate part is only for those that follow Islamic law). I mean, thats pretty concrete right there dude. Barack is sure looking more and more like Osama every step of the way, but it gets better. In order for Barack to even be considered an apostate, he would have had to be practicing Islamic law in both speech and deed, after the age of 15.

He never did and you have no proof that he ever did. So he cannot be an apostate even by the very law you claim to know so much about.

You know what, get a fucking clue before you accuse ANYONE of lying OK? I told you the plain fucking truth about what makes a muslim murtadd and how the invocation of the Shahadah as a speaking child---like how EVERY muslim student in Indonesia's public madrasa system MUST DO every fucking morning since Suharto's regime---confirms one's profession of faith in Islam.

Noone DENIES that Obama Attended SDN101 Besuki menteng. Noone DENIES that Obama was enrolled as a muslim child and that he followed the rules of the school like a good kid. He was in that school for two years and celebrated prayers every thursday all that time. Noone DENIES that Obama's father was muslim nor his grandfather nor his father before him. Islamic Jurisprudence, which has seen an unfortunate resurgence in places as moderate as Turkey, is clear on where Obama's faith lies: he's a muslim, a shirker and a murtadd, but still muslim.

So you're left with Hussein Obama's word that "I never PRACTICED it no no no" against the weight of the tradition he so admired and the father he wrote about. Do YOU have some kind of evidence that Barack Hussein Obama's father converted to Christianity at some point in his life? Do YOU have evidence that Obama's dad ever turned murtadd before he was born? Because Obama even admits that his dad was polygamist in every sense and bemoaned his grandfathers support of the Kenyatta regime when he visited the region.

I've laid out the facts as clearly and plainly as possible but you're still adamant that I'm LYING?

LOL. How so? Because you fucking said so? Because Barack Hussein Obama fucking said so? Sad to say but YOU have even more credibility than Senator Hussein Obama who spent the last decade pandering to the worst crooks in the state. As ridiculous and preposterous your hokey little "empiricalism" faux may have been, it doesn't come close to the abject insincerity and just plain INCOMPETENCE of the man who looked every pennsylania worker in the eye and promised them he would champion their concerns about NAFTA even as he promised the Canadians the exact opposite IN WRITING.

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

There really is only one way to settle this Khorum.

Empire Total War.

You pussied out on MTWII and that shit ain't going to fly again. I just hope the Thirteen Colonies can muster up a fleet strong enough to face the might of the Almighty Prophets Mughal Armada. You might have to enlist the help of Louis XV.

Don't bother, I'm getting leet beta infoz.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Obama is associated with this person and that person.

Continuing to go on and on about Obama's associations makes you sound like that dumbass Sean Hannity. You even resort to using his middle name which is even more lowbrow. I laugh at the argument. Being from Chicago you should know that to advance in the Chicago political scene you have to deal with shady and somewhat criminal types. The fact that he was able to advance in such a corrupt system and now obtain the Democratic nomination shows he is a savvy politician. Although, some idealists may see this as a negative, I see it as a strong positive. I think the President needs to have a little evil in him to be in such a position. Obama and his right hand man, David Axelrod are shrewd and savvy.

Obama is able to let the young idealists believe that he is pure but I don't think he is and believe his impurity is a great asset and will make him a great President. I fully support back room, somewhat illegal deals for the greater good.

[Agraza]

The issue there is defining the greater good. We should all be well aware that back rooms are the only places real discussions and deals are made, but the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Your blanket statement easily extends to every person you loathe even under the qualification "for the greater good" when you consider that, in the view of their supporters, they are the ones acting for the greater good.

Giuliani was associated with oil. McCain is associated with lobbyists. Bush is associated with neo-cons and oil. Associations aren't valid or invalid on the basis of existing. They have to be taken into context. I know jack shit about Chicago so the context is lost on me, and I don't make judgements on those particular associations. That is more of what Obama has going for him. Lobbyists, Oil, and Neo-cons are a subject of consistent national scrutiny. Chicago is far less relevant to America as a whole, and thus whatever shady deals he was involved in fall below the radar.

[Manseed]

Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch

FOX News is the worst entity we have ever seen in the history of the world.

You're such a fucking joke.

[Angerz]

Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch

Being from Chicago you should know that to advance in the Chicago political scene you have to deal with shady and somewhat criminal types.

Somewhat Criminal is being somewhat nice. I'm pretty sure every politician within 50 miles of the city is on the take from someone, and has at least 3 people scrounging around registering dead people.

And as far as the news goes, outside of the people on the 9 oclock news who keep me informed how many people got gunned down in Chicago, how much my gas price will go up and tell me why is 97% humidity and never fucking rains, every news broadcast is out to make money and all their news is one step above the Onion.

They are all dancing puppets looking to make ratings, to get ahead to the bigger desk, to make more money. Especially watching the BREAKING NEWS on CNN yesterday around 1. Fucking guy sitting in front of a barrel of oil with a price tag on it, who had the current market numbers superimposed over him, a lady on another screen with a grumpy face, and a guy moderating all the chaos. I'll give that it was a big deal, a big loss day and a big jump in oil, but it looked like I was watching a spoof movie of the news, not a real broadcast.

[Simas]

So Hillary gave her speech a while ago. General opinion seems to be she could have done no better.

She made a point of the history she made by being the 1st serious woman candidate for president and reminded her supporters that there is still history to be made by electing the 1st black president. She pointed out that in the past 40 years we have had democratic presidents serve 3 terms, two of which were Bills.

Will this strat work? Will centrist voters say "ya know the Dems havent had that many chances recently, we havent had a black president before, we havent had a president this inspiring since JFK".

Beyond all the issues how strong will this sort of The-Departed-Oscar-Its-about-time-effect be with swing voters?

[Aamina]

Get Malakriss back in here. We need another incorrect Harry Potter comparison to make this interesting.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Simas

So Hillary gave her speech a while ago. General opinion seems to be she could have done no better.

She made a point of the history she made by being the 1st serious woman candidate for president and reminded her supporters that there is still history to be made by electing the 1st black president. She pointed out that in the past 40 years we have had democratic presidents serve 3 terms, two of which were Bills.

Will this strat work? Will centrist voters say "ya know the Dems havent had that many chances recently, we havent had a black president before, we havent had a president this inspiring since JFK".

Beyond all the issues how strong will this sort of The-Departed-Oscar-Its-about-time-effect be with swing voters?

I think Obama should put her in the ticket. She has a significant voter block of white women and Hispanics and would make California and New Jersey even easier to win. Not only that, but it would put Florida in play for Obama. She may be able to win Arkansas for him also.

After they win, let her do her health care thing plus help with economic issues using the Clinton plan they used in the 1990s. He should then make Chuck Hagel Secretary of Defense to deal with Iran and Iraq. Lastly, put Colin Powell back in the State Department for diplomacy with rogue nations.

The only downfall I see to adding her to the ticket would be that Bill Clinton is a wild card and unpredictable. Also, his business dealings with foreign nations and various women could become a distraction. Although those distractions are preferable than dealing with his freak church issues and puts the controversial issues on Bill Clinton. Not only that but Bill is a fund raising machine.

[Fog]

Apparently, according to J. Cocksucker Khorum, being Muslim is a wonderful faith we should deeply respect and make domestic concessions to, unless maybe Barack Hussein Obama is or was a secret Muslim, which would probably make him a terrorist sleeper agent.

Anyway, according to J. Cocksucker Khorum, we care a lot about what Muslims in the Middle East think of our presidential candidates, so if they don't like Barack Hussein Obama, that's very important. However, we should always keep in mind that other Muslims, like Hamas, endorse him, which brings up the question of whether he is actually an America-hating Arab Manchurian Candidate preparing to bring down our country from the inside.

Khorum, your thoughts?

(P.S. I see that you have unearthed some shocking revelations about Barack Hussein Obama. For example, you pointed out that his father and grandfather were Muslim. I agree that this is extremely disturbing. However, did you know that his father and grandfather are actually also black? America is going to have a fit when this hits the cable news!)

[Dis]

It is amazing how many people throw fits when you use middle names. Guys get over it, Khorum is winning when you post like above. He is trying to get a rise out of you, and you guys are taking the bait. ffs

Khorum is by far on one end of the spectrum, but he offsets a lot of you on the other end. He more than holds his own.

[Simas]

Originally Posted by Fog

... Muslims, like Hamas, endorse him...

Just wanted to make sure people realize Hamas no longer endorses Obama after his speech at AIPAC.

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/200...-israel-lobby/