Record profits and soaring gas prices, I dont get it

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by kedwyn

Think about it this way, your gas is taxed at a higher rate than the oil companies profit. If you want to complain about where you money goes check with the government while you are pointing fingers. They have been raping us in taxes from fuel as well.

The price is what it is because of supply constraints - you remove the tax and the price isn't going to just drop by that much. Isn't it also something like 16 cents? That's a long way off from 10%...


The current gas prices are unsustainable anyway, they'll get much higher. There's a billion Chinese and a billion Indians who are going to start purchasing cars soon. They'll also start having money to get some real heating. Then they want to take vacations, which means more planes in the air.

$10/gallon within the next 5-10 years isn't all that unlikely.

Innovation is dead in this market, and there's no amount of justification left for why the price of gas goes up in America for demand in India and China.

Huh? Crude oil is traded globally, of course demand in India or China is going to increase the price. And let's not forget that the dollar lost quite a bit of its value - increasing prices on imported goods is hardly unexpected.

[Dethfang]

Whats not to understand about a supply curve and a demand curve intersecting at the market price... pay attention during your first day of high school economics and you will understand why gas prices are the way they are.

In the grand scheme of things I am fucking amazed at the price of gasoline considering what it takes to get it to me, I still dont like paying it but I am amazed none the less.

[AladainAF]

Yes, I wonder how this happens.

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[Ashes Emberblade]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

How am I in any way incorrect about the usage of cars in today's society?

Because it's a broad generalization and none of your business?

[dak]

Government controls prices instead of the market. Bush administration likes big oil. It's basic affront to capitalism.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Ashes Emberblade

Because it's a broad generalization and none of your business?

None of my business how other's habits affect the environment we all share and the economy we all live in? Ohhhk.

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

None of my business how other's habits affect the environment we all share and the economy we all live in? Ohhhk.

You should be happy then that gas prices are rising - I know I am. No better way to change the behavior of people than to make them pay for it.

[Kaio]

Exactly... The only real solutions for lowering the price (stabilizing rather then lowering at this point) is promoting alternative energy research, exploration, or tapping some oil we aren't now for environmental reasons.

I'm still gonna imagine what 3 trillion dollars could have done for alternative energy. I imagine we could have outfitted a few states with pure solar power. Yes, I brought up iraq... sowwy.

Also, new improvements in Lithium-ion cells are emerging and will hopefully be brought to market by 2010 and inside electric cars or hybrids.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Soriak

You should be happy then that gas prices are rising - I know I am. No better way to change the behavior of people than to make them pay for it.

That's kinda like saying you should be happy to have high blood pressure because now you have extra motivation to quit smoking.

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

That's kinda like saying you should be happy to have high blood pressure because now you have extra motivation to quit smoking.

If getting people to quit smoking is your primary goal, then sure.

Air pollution is an issue for anyone living in a major city and global climate change even more so. (especially for people living on the coasts) This is the classic example of a market failure, as the SUV owners get to unload the cost of their luxury on others.

I'm not advocating we start outlawing certain cars, way too much bureaucracy and with all the types of cars it's going to be a mess anyway. This is why the tax is so handy - it's easy to collect and does exactly what it's supposed to, without restricting what cars people can or cannot buy. It also provides revenue to the government with which it can fund environmental programs, creating jobs and/or a competitive advantage in the process. (good market for environmental technology)

Or, as an editorial in the NYT put it: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/06/opinion/06fri1.html

Energy is currently underpriced in part because its cost does not
reflect the damage inflicted by fossil fuels. Underpricing leads to
overconsumption. Worse, it leads to underinvestment in alternatives. As
long as today’s energy is relatively cheap, there is little incentive
for private firms to develop new fuels and technologies.”

The beauty is that the price of gas won't rise as much as the tax adds to it: the higher price leads to lower demand, which will be reflected in the price of crude oil.

[Snugglebear]

When you live in a rural area, driving everywhere is the only option. There's no magic monorails to ride and the bus system sucks.

Unless demand subsides, the price will continue to rise, because a maximal tolerance threshold will not have been reached with consumers.

[Jait]

Solve the problem? Solve it? Kill 4 billion people*. Problem solved.

All you're doing is just buying time until Nature does it for us. By 2050 the projections state 9 billion people. Count 'em folks. 9. Technology isn't keeping up with the demand of a billion in the modernized world, and fuel is just the tip of the iceburg. China and India represent almost a third of the worlds population, and they're just joining the stage. Get ready for the domino effect kiddies.

All the finger pointing is nothing more than rationalizing your own guilt. As the sky falls, everyone points to their neighbors and calls them the source of the problem. But no one is innocent. Well except me.


*Jait does not actually condone killing people.

[Fammaden]

Have any overpopulation scares or predictions actually come anywhere close to true? Weren't academic experts back in the 1970's predicting massive famine, rationing, and resource war by this point in the new millennium? Yet here you are trying to tell me that in a mere 40 years there will be a domino effect of...something bad. I imagine if China and India really continue to drive demand higher and higher that alternatives and/or new tech/exploration for oil reserves will somehow find a way to overcome the things that hold them back traditionally.

Or we are probably all going to starve to death if we don't stop using demon oil and encourage the state to forcibly sterilize poor people. That answer is more fun and certainly gets more attention, funding, grants, departmental budget considerations...you know, all the things that made us so successful as a species in the first place?

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by Snugglebear

When you live in a rural area, driving everywhere is the only option. There's no magic monorails to ride and the bus system sucks.

This is true, but there are some solutions to it. The most obvious one would be for more people to move back into the city and tackling the problems there. Employees could work more from a computer at home instead of sitting in front of a computer at work. There could be a fixed tax deduction for people who can't get public transportation to work. Or the bus companies could find a new market and offer morning transfers between suburbs and/or to the city - or people could privately organize to carpool together.

The goal doesn't have to be to eliminate driving, just to reduce it somewhat - or to encourage the use of more efficient cars. I'm going to bet that most people who drive SUVs on a daily basis drive exclusively on well maintained roads - nothing a Prius couldn't handle just as easily.


This is all less a question of what people want to do and more one about what people will eventually be required to do. I don't see a real alternative happening before the price of gas forces the change. Though those electric cars that get up to 100 miles on a charge are very interesting - shouldn't be that difficult to let people recharge them in the parking garage.

Have any overpopulation scares or predictions actually come anywhere close to true?

Nope. I don't know about the US, but it's also something used by some fringe anti-immigration groups here. The idea, that there's not enough space/resources to take in more people without everything going to hell.

The argument completely ignores that more people just create more demand, which in turn means more economic activity and hence more jobs. Economic growth has to come from somewhere and it just requires a growing number of people.

[Cad]

If gas prices go high enough to cause city reorganization and repopulation of heavily urban areas, it'll just spread out again when the price falls. I, as someone who has no option but to take a 30 mile commute every day, wouldn't mind moving somewhere where I don't have to drive. It's just not reality though, wife's job is one place, my school is another, her parents (our babysitting) are another. These places are far apart. Such is life. If gas were $10/gallon it wouldn't faze me in the slightest - it's a trivial expense even commuting 60 miles a day compared to housing or the actual cost of cars.