Oh fuck you

[flagrantabuse]

Originally Posted by The Walking Gentleman

Yes.

But it doesn't really matter. We're stuck on this side of the line, and no amount of wishing changes who we have to point our guns at.

Gah, I hate extremists. How can someone just lose themselves in an ideal like that?

it's quite easy. be born, grow up with violence and no education and voila..

[TOOL]

Originally Posted by flagrantabuse

it's quite easy. be born, grow up with violence and no education and voila..

Are you talking about Islam or America?

[Soriak]

Originally Posted by The Walking Gentleman

Gah, I hate extremists. How can someone just lose themselves in an ideal like that?

Couldn't agree more.

Yoo's memo on torture, which determined official US policy:

...our Office has recently concluded that the Fourth Amendment has no application on domestic military operations....

By requiring that the procedures and the drugs create a profound disruption, the statute requires more than that the acts "forcibly separate" or "rend" the senses or personality. Those acts must penetrate to the core of an individual's ability to perceive the world around him, substantially interfering with his cognitive abilities, or fundamentally alter his personality.

It further states that if someone is beginning to self-mutilate in a way that would indicate suicidal tendencies, it should be stopped - particularly in cultures with a tradition against suicide.

To count as torture, physical pain has to be "equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death."



This isn't an "America sucks" post, but you've got to admit the Bush administration's stance on torture doesn't resemble that of a civilized country.

[Malakriss]

Bush's stance on anything and everything doesn't resemble that of a civilized country.

[Vatoreus]

Originally Posted by TOOL

Are you talking about Islam or America?

yes

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Soriak

Just like Americans seem to have forgotten that France saved your ass

Also... they hate you? I'd say they dislike the current administration. In terms of hatred, you see far more coming from American politicians.

Totally disagree. Americans havent forgotten - its part and parcel to our history and still celebrated in classrooms.

For the most part a lot of America's disdain for the French comes from the French not liking us. A little third grade I know but it's true. A "why does this entire country hate us when we've helped them out" - and the French were the ones who started it.

Categorically the french have been some of the rudest people Americans have encountered while abroad. I'm sure people abroad would say that about new yorkers though. Hell I would still say a lot of ppl on the east coast are rude. But thats because Chicagoans are nice .

Its nothing to do with the administration. The french have LONG loathed americans and been rude for the sake of being rude.

I'm sorry Soriak but until youre American (which is never because even if you gained citizenship and went abroad you could still pass for someone NOT from America) and you've had the chance to personally experience the type of rudeness I'm talking about in France, I just don't think your opinion will amount to much in this arena for me. I've been to a lot of places in Europe. France is the only country I will never return to.

[The Ancient]

There is a little misunderstanding about the French here. They hate everyone in that distinctly French fashion, not just the US. There is some extra US disdain these days thanks to our world politics but largely the French just think they are better than everyone else.

[Kuriin]

FREEDOM FRIES

[Soygen]

Mmm, cripsy, delicious freedom fries.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Etoille

stuff

As a Canadian who lived in france and attended the American School of Paris, I think I can comment on this. I hate going on tourist vacations with Americans. Now, there are other tourists which are terrible (irish) but Americans outnumber them. I used to not wear canadian flags on my stuff but I started because of the way everyone else in the world treats you assuming you're american. Hell, most of the americans I went to school with did the same (canadian flags on their bags, pins).

But I had no issues from the french. What you perceive as them hating you is the same people saying Freedom Fries here. It's just a bunch of loudmouth assholes. Actually living in Paris, people were no more or less friendly than people anywhere else. If you actually believe the average french person dislikes you, you're falling into the media bullshit. Actually go there, be normal (not one of those extremely loud fucks who thinks their conversation is more important than the rest of the restaurant), and you'll have no issues. Sure, the occasional person will hold your nationality against you, but it's the same amount that if that person came here, would be held against them.

Well I should say the average american tourist is fine. It's just that the worst american tourist is worse than other countries worst tourists. And trust me, I travelled a lot.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Zerai

As a Canadian who lived in france

Freedom hater!

other tourists which are terrible (irish)

Oh, so ya think yer better than me?!

If you actually believe the average french person dislikes you, you're falling into the media bullshit. Actually go there, be normal (not one of those extremely loud fucks who thinks their conversation is more important than the rest of the restaurant), and you'll have no issues. Sure, the occasional person will hold your nationality against you, but it's the same amount that if that person came here, would be held against them.

In all seriousness, I agree with that. The common stereotype about the French is that they're incredibly rude to tourists in general, and to Americans in particular. But on the whole, I'd say they're no ruder to tourists than we are here at home. Think about all those times you saw gawking Japanese tourists with their cameras and their dazzled expressions, and how you treated them (or at least talked about them to your friends). Think about how you treated the weird foreign-exchange student in high school. I can't comment definitively on whether foreigners are treated worse in France than they'd be treated in other European countries. But I do know that we're in no position to be casting the first stone here.

the worst american tourist is worse than other countries worst tourists. And trust me, I travelled a lot.

I think bad German tourists are up there. A lot of them are very rude, complain a lot, and have poor manners. But the worst American tourists are probably worse than most. I'm talking Ma and Pa Redneck tourists.

[Desx]

I only hate the french because they were a pain in my ass playing colonization.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Zerai

Actually go there, be normal (not one of those extremely loud fucks who thinks their conversation is more important than the rest of the restaurant), and you'll have no issues. Sure, the occasional person will hold your nationality against you, but it's the same amount that if that person came here, would be held against them.

Well I should say the average american tourist is fine. It's just that the worst american tourist is worse than other countries worst tourists. And trust me, I travelled a lot.

I'd think you were right...except that I HAVE been to Paris. And they were friggin rude. Well except when they wanted some like our hotel manager that tried to come into our room to get on us (my best friend and I).

With regard to american tourists - I WILL agree with you on that. They expect things to be like america and will freak out over food that is different or when people dont speak english.

Me? I spoke French and tried to immerse myself. Yep. Still rude. But thanks for insinuating im stupid and cant possibly have formed an opinion myself or based on my friends that have been there/just buy into what the media says like a blind idiot! No stereotyping/assumptions there on your part at all!

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Millie

Think about all those times you saw gawking Japanese tourists with their cameras and their dazzled expressions, and how you treated them (or at least talked about them to your friends). Think about how you treated the weird foreign-exchange student in high school. I can't comment definitively on whether foreigners are treated worse in France than they'd be treated in other European countries.

Hey, now...settle down...I don't remember being rude to any foreigners! Stop singling me out because I'm American . I actually ran into a group of Japanese women once. It was really fun hearing them speak in english since I'm a massive fan of japanese anime. Cashew = cash, credito cardo, and all the stereotypical Japanese pronunciations IRL.

[Malakriss]

The France stereotype has a hint of truth but it's unfair to generalize them as hating all foreigners. The French take their culture very seriously and expect visitors to show a certain degree of respect when in their country. You have to acknowledge that you're not from France and just be an actual tourist, be a foreigner and not someone who's trying to "fit in" because it's taken as an incredible insult especially when you make mistakes.

Anyone from shopkeepers to waiters to random people on the street will blatantly ignore or respond rudely when tourists try speaking French. This is true from the middle of Paris to the trains you take into the country. If you're not a native speaker or not clearly fluent, butchering their language is the easiest way to get hated, botching their customs is a close second. Just speak English and act like the clueless tourist, they'll forgive you for it and get along fine.