NIU Shooting

[Neph]

According to Jack Thomson, it was video games like Counter Strike. Why don't these shooters go after him instead of our universities...

[The Walking Gentleman]

Well it's definitely very American that we've decided to debate method rather than motive.

[Grumath]

People get way too detached from these situations when spewing the things they do. Put yourself in that classroom. Your human nature would be flooding you with 2 options. Fight or Flight. You would likely first look for a way to get yourself, and your friends out. Failing that, its time to fight for your life. I would bet my left ball that the vast majority of those kids were thinking "FUCK I WISH I WAS ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN TO DEFEND MYSELF AND MY FRIENDS RIGHT ABOUT NOW!". It is my right as a animal, much less a human being, to defend myself when put in a life or death situation. If I am getting punched in the face, I can punch back. If I am getting shot at, I should be able to shoot back. Taking away people's right to guns to defend against other guns is akin to removing an animal's weapons like its claws or teeth and leaving it in a world full of claws and teeth.

[Twobit Whore]

I think the better solution is to not have people be in a situation where they need a gun to shoot back in the first place.. and please spare me the 'it's too late, we got gunz may as well give them to everybody' rhetoric.

[[LVC]DeGrassi]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think the better solution is to not have people be in a situation where they need a gun to shoot back in the first place.. and please spare me the 'it's too late, we got gunz may as well give them to everybody' rhetoric.

Seriously I read your fucking moronic disscusions in the mmo thread, and now your in here telling everyone guns are bad ? Kindly fuck off. Or go move to france with the other dipshit a few posts back, guns arnt the problem, fucked up people with guns is the problem. I have no criminal record, I own many guns, many .. lots. Guess what, I follow all the rules, I am an avid hunter and gun enthusiast. And to hear people say guns are whats wrong pisses me off. Sure argue for more background checks and longer wait times on aquiring said weapon, but saying they shouldnt be allowed which is what basically you and all the other retarded europeans are saying is retarded.

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by slitz

Ignorant about guns? How the hell are you ignorant about guns? What do you possibly know about guns that I don't? Please inform me.


Well IMO, a kid shouldn't have a fucking gun in the first place wether it's a duck hunting shotgun or not.

Why is it wrong to regulate it? I'm not talking about banning at all, I'm talking about regulations.
In Sweden (just an example, not saying Sweden is better than country X) you need to be at least 18 to get a weapon license. You need to have a clean criminal record for the last five years and you also need a legitimate reason why you should indeed get license (basically only hunters, people that use it in service and "sport shooters" have a good motivation for it).
If you're a hunter and want a rifle, you need to pass a "hunting exam" and you also need a "certified" storage for your weapon.
Even if you do aquire a weapon license, you're still not allowed to carry it around in public. You are only allowed to carry it to and from "whatever_you_need_the_gun_for" exhibition.
While this may seem a bit over the top for Americans, is there a special need for other people than the mentioned above to have a gun? If so, shouldn't they at least prove that they are mentally healthy, don't have any drug/alchohol problems, before you put a weapon in their hands?
And why do one feel the need to carry one on daily basis?

Thinking that these massacres have nothing to do with the liberal view of guns is fucking naive imo.

You're making an idealistic statement though. There are 200,000,000 guns in the USA right now, 65mil of which are handguns. This kid obtained a gun, carried it illegally, and used it illegally.

If guns were totally banned and regulated... uh, he can still obtain a gun, carry it illegally, and use it illegally.

If you had a magic wand and could delete 200 million guns, I'm all for it. But they are a permanent part of America. This kid was a CRIMINAL who used a gun illegally, in an illegal place, in an illegal manner. Do you get it? HE BROKE LAWS. He took a gun into a GUN FREE ZONE.

In the USA, you AREN'T allowed to carry a gun around in public, wtf are you thinking? If you have a permit, you can carry a concealed weapon, but you'll almost NEVER see a handgun or rifle in public in a non-cop/military person unless you're at a Hunting store.

Fact is, there isn't a single gun law or regulation that would have stopped this. Don't you get it. HE BROKE THE LAW, he IGNORED THE REGULATIONS that already ARE in place. THE COLLEGE WAS A GUN FREE ZONE. If the shotgun was loaded and he was carrying it THAT IS ILLEGAL. YOU CANNOT TRANSPORT A LOADED GUN WITHOUT A PERMIT.

Also, if he wasn't the owner the gun, THAT WAS ILLEGAL TOO.

We have gun laws here and NONE OF THEM MATTERED. And you can say "if he didn't have access to guns he would have used a knife and killed less!!" WTF there are TWO HUNDRED MILLION GUNS already in the USA. How the fuck can someone in the USA NOT FIND A GUN. A regulation would do nothing.

[Grumath]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think the better solution is to not have people be in a situation where they need a gun to shoot back in the first place.. and please spare me the 'it's too late, we got gunz may as well give them to everybody' rhetoric.

We can dream of the perfect Utopia and speculate on situations all day. The fact is, there is NO WAY to guarantee these situations can't or won't happen like you want.

Let's get back to real life and the present. You are in that classroom. Bullets are flying. People are getting hurt and dying. Would you rather you had a gun (or other means of defending yourself on equal footing), or would you rather cower in the fetal position? Pick one Twobit.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Zeste

You're making an idealistic statement though. There are 200,000,000 guns in the USA right now, 65mil of which are handguns. This kid obtained a gun, carried it illegally, and used it illegally.

If guns were totally banned and regulated... uh, he can still obtain a gun, carry it illegally, and use it illegally.

If you had a magic wand and could delete 200 million guns, I'm all for it. But they are a permanent part of America. This kid was a CRIMINAL who used a gun illegally, in an illegal place, in an illegal manner. Do you get it? HE BROKE LAWS. He took a gun into a GUN FREE ZONE.

In the USA, you AREN'T allowed to carry a gun around in public, wtf are you thinking? If you have a permit, you can carry a concealed weapon, but you'll almost NEVER see a handgun or rifle in public in a non-cop/military person unless you're at a Hunting store.

Fact is, there isn't a single gun law or regulation that would have stopped this. Don't you get it. HE BROKE THE LAW, he IGNORED THE REGULATIONS that already ARE in place. THE COLLEGE WAS A GUN FREE ZONE. If the shotgun was loaded and he was carrying it THAT IS ILLEGAL. YOU CANNOT TRANSPORT A LOADED GUN WITHOUT A PERMIT.

Also, if he wasn't the owner the gun, THAT WAS ILLEGAL TOO.

We have gun laws here and NONE OF THEM MATTERED. And you can say "if he didn't have access to guns he would have used a knife and killed less!!" WTF there are TWO HUNDRED MILLION GUNS already in the USA. How the fuck can someone in the USA NOT FIND A GUN. A regulation would do nothing.

This is kinda why I'm on the fence on this stuff. I support gun control and regulation but at the same time I'm like...well gee this person would have obtained a gun illegally - no law was going to stop him, or some other method of killing people anyways so why crack down on a constitutional right which most of the time is used legally?

Its like saying "lots of people drive on suspended licenses or drive drunk or recklessly, lets ban all cars" imo. Then of course youll have the people that say "its a gun its designed to do only one thing=shoot, where as a car is designed to carry people around..."

I dont know where I land in this argument anymore. The idealist in me would love to think that tighter gun control laws are the answer. The realist in me knows it isnt. And the sane person in me knows that "well if everyone carried a handgun" isnt the answer and we'd have even more deaths due to accidents and flareups (as is the case with cars).

meh.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by Grumath

We can dream of the perfect Utopia and speculate on situations all day. The fact is, there is NO WAY to guarantee these situations can't or won't happen like you want.

Let's get back to real life and the present. You are in that classroom. Bullets are flying. People are getting hurt and dying. Would you rather you had a gun (or other means of defending yourself on equal footing), or would you rather cower in the fetal position? Pick one Twobit.

Too bad it's not as black and white as that. The answer is not to ban guns. That would be a constitutional deprivation of rights. The answer also, however, is not arm every kid in class with a pistol. Both sides trying to boil the issue down to a simple binary choice is retarded.

[Blumpster]

.

Originally Posted by Disp

This needs to be rickshawed STAT. Not sure why I even got into it heh.

[EmpireF4i]

Gun laws dont make guns extinct, it just makes the people who buy guns legally not able to get them. Just because I own a gun, and have a kid and leave my gun out on the table doesnt mean that the kid is automatically going to go on a shooting spree.

This kid has issues which probably started at home.

[Kaio]

So we don't put people taking psychiatric drugs (like this guy) or issues into some kind of anti-gun list? We probably should...

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Cynno

You're little strawman bullshit kinda reminded me of John McCain after he was booed talking about illegal immigrants and how they should be dealt with. I believe his parting shot was....I'll leave it to you to tell a US soldier that you are deporting his mother.

Hell, another edit here, just check how the guy who started Americas Most Wanted got his start. His son was killed, used it for his own agenda and started helping people. Agenda isn't always a bad thing.

You're swinging "strawman" argument around like a hex against bad spirits though you don't really grasp what it means. Here's a clue: don't bother, you're a FUCKING MORON. When confronted with complex issues, FUCKING MORONS cleave to the immediacy of cheap, sensationalist emotionalism because FUCKING MORONS can't weather the rigors of rational analysis. Thus FUCKING MORONS like you chump along relying on the comfort of popular opinion on the most complex issues because if compelled to defend your views you know you'll just fuck it up and end up showing how much of a FUCKING MORON you really are.

Strawman bullshit. Jesus christ get a fucking clue you cretin. John Walsh didn't start his activism till 1988, almost a decade after his son was murdered in respect to his son and family's memory. When he DID take action did he cheapen his family's loss by letting some hippie activist hijack his son's death as ammunition for their ongoing campaign to reduce patriarchal supremacy in western civilization? Did he start the show "America's Evil Guns" or "America's Gun Problem"? Tell me, you FUCKING MORON, does John Walsh's show spend more time pursuing the propagation of firearms or the pursuit of criminals? Take your time, I know you're a FUCKING MORON.

[Kugbok_Fennin]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

How long before we find out that this dude was on all kinds of "medication", serotonin re-uptake inhibitors, etc?

University Police: Illinois Campus Shooter On “Medication”

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by [LVC]DeGrassi

Seriously I read your fucking moronic disscusions in the mmo thread, and now your in here telling everyone guns are bad ? Kindly fuck off. Or go move to france with the other dipshit a few posts back, guns arnt the problem, fucked up people with guns is the problem. I have no criminal record, I own many guns, many .. lots. Guess what, I follow all the rules, I am an avid hunter and gun enthusiast. And to hear people say guns are whats wrong pisses me off. Sure argue for more background checks and longer wait times on aquiring said weapon, but saying they shouldnt be allowed which is what basically you and all the other retarded europeans are saying is retarded.

And your backwoods 'I NEEDZ MAH GUNZ' thinking is what is holding back further regulation that could stem the tide of school shootings and the like. You and all your NRA Hestonian gun nuts.

Do you think the US is the only country in the world with fucked up people? No.. not even close. Many people in many countries have it MUCH MUCH worse than we do and have much more cause to go on a rampage yet they don't. I wonder why that is... Clearly it's because they have such great mental health care and wonderful institutions to battle that shit.. or maybe it's because you can't walk down the street and buy shotguns and ammo at fucking Wal-Mart. And if you do manage to procure one your ass is grass if you get caught with it.