Clinton and Obama

[AngryGerbil]

Originally Posted by Soriak

Misunderstanding here, maybe?

Yeah I'm thinking so.

I meant only to say originally, that if Obama's supporters want me to vote for Obama, they are failing miserably. So what if Hilary is in Wyoming? Seriously, petty much? If I vote for Obama, it will be because of other stuff and that the typical Obama supporter seems hell bent on making me NOT want to vote for him based on their generally immature behavior.

In other words, if I vote for Obama in November, I will NOT be voting for Obama supporters. I will likely be embarrassed by them and have to defend myself from people like Khorum (who I think is my brother IRL. Seriously, by brother is like politically identical to Khorum in almost every possible way) for 4 years even though I said in May of '08 that I already despise these fucking ignorant "Obama people".

They don't influence my vote directly, they just make me cringe a bit when I do vote.

I hereby declare peace between America and Switzerland. Peace in our time!

[chaos]

Now that Obama is the presumptive nominee, again, I think we should merge this thread and the "Older women and you" thread. Let's see if we can't get a peek at them titties.

[renaissance]

Even best case scenario:

Clinton blowouts (65-35) in Kentucky and West Virginia;
Modest (55-45) Obama victories in Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota;
A split vote in Puerto Rico;

Clinton will still need 193 out of the available 256 Superdelegates available to keep Obama from clinching the nomination with 2,025 delegates. With the trends since February 5th, this is a near impossibility. Obama is a mere 65 Superdelegate endorsements away from the nomination, assuming poll numbers are accurate. If he gets 80 or so before Puerto Rico (he got 7 on Friday alone), Clinton may as well go home and save her money for 2016.

Florida and Michigan will be counted, but no way in hell before the June 3rd contests. The Obama campaign wont let it happen, and rightfully so. They don't want FL and MI deciding the nomination, but they do want the delegates sat. Obama may be so far ahead in delegates at that point, the campaign may simply allow the FL and MI votes to stand as they are (with Obama being assigned the 'undecided' votes in MI).

[Kolle]

i think she would still be behind in delegates even if mi and fla was to count right now

[renaissance]

Originally Posted by Kolle

i think she would still be behind in delegates even if mi and fla was to count right now

Right, but they still shouldn't be factored in until after all the legitimate primaries are completed.

[renaissance]

Also, can a knowledgeable American citizen please explain to me why Florida is such a black hole of political fail? Why they are at the center of every voting disaster in the country... consistently? Is it the people? Is there a corrupt state government? Wat?

[Zitar]

Originally Posted by renaissance

Also, can a knowledgeable American citizen please explain to me why Florida is such a black hole of political fail? Why they are at the center of every voting disaster in the country... consistently? Is it the people? Is there a corrupt state government? Wat?

Chicago is still the all time king of voting bullshit.

In recent years Florida gets attention since its elections are close much like Ohio. Same fuck ups happen in most states they just happen to be blow outs so nobody cares.

[Havelock]

Originally Posted by renaissance

Even best case scenario:

Clinton blowouts (65-35) in Kentucky and West Virginia;
Modest (55-45) Obama victories in Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota;
A split vote in Puerto Rico;

Clinton will still need 193 out of the available 256 Superdelegates available to keep Obama from clinching the nomination with 2,025 delegates. With the trends since February 5th, this is a near impossibility. Obama is a mere 65 Superdelegate endorsements away from the nomination, assuming poll numbers are accurate. If he gets 80 or so before Puerto Rico (he got 7 on Friday alone), Clinton may as well go home and save her money for 2016.

Florida and Michigan will be counted, but no way in hell before the June 3rd contests. The Obama campaign wont let it happen, and rightfully so. They don't want FL and MI deciding the nomination, but they do want the delegates sat. Obama may be so far ahead in delegates at that point, the campaign may simply allow the FL and MI votes to stand as they are (with Obama being assigned the 'undecided' votes in MI).

That's assuming everything stays static. Clinton's real only hope is that either some monster dirt comes out on Obama or he (or maybe his wife) say something so unbelievably offensive that the superdelegates can't vote for him. It's an unlikely scenario, to say the least, but given how much she's invested in this I guess it makes sense to hold out. That's especially true if she tones down her spending and runs a positive campaign designed to heal some wounds and reunify the party.

[renaissance]

Originally Posted by Havelock

That's assuming everything stays static. Clinton's real only hope is that either some monster dirt comes out on Obama or he (or maybe his wife) say something so unbelievably offensive that the superdelegates can't vote for him. It's an unlikely scenario, to say the least, but given how much she's invested in this I guess it makes sense to hold out. That's especially true if she tones down her spending and runs a positive campaign designed to heal some wounds and reunify the party.

Ok, sorry, best case scenario for Clinton is Obama getting eaten by Velociraptors who are wearing flag pins.

I bet he'd still win pledged delegates.

[spronk]

Originally Posted by renaissance

Also, can a knowledgeable American citizen please explain to me why Florida is such a black hole of political fail? Why they are at the center of every voting disaster in the country... consistently? Is it the people? Is there a corrupt state government? Wat?

Its very closely split state (like 50/50 dem/rep). In 2000 incompetent state govt leadership led to a disaster with shitty ballots and unable to correctly count the vote - remember that chick with the titties who was responsible for vote counting... Harris? 2004 went ok more or less.

In 2008 the state leadership moved the primaries up in order to "be important". Many, many states moved their primaries up, its just that MI and FL moved it up too early breaking democratic rules set years/months earlier. Interestingly enough PA also wanted to move it up, at least the governor did, but the legislature kind of dickered around and it never passed. In hindsight of course it turned out the late states are the deciders, not the early ones.

Hopefully the people of florida are pissed off at their retarded elected government and vote out the people who decided to break the rules in a grab for glory, its 100% their fault FL and MI essentially got written off the democratic primary process.

[Payndar Circusdorf]

Originally Posted by spronk

In 2000 incompetent state govt leadership led to a disaster with shitty ballots and unable to correctly count the vote

Don't forget the stupid people who couldn't read their ballots.

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by spronk

Its very closely split state (like 50/50 dem/rep). In 2000 incompetent state govt leadership led to a disaster with shitty ballots and unable to correctly count the vote - remember that chick with the titties who was responsible for vote counting... Harris? 2004 went ok more or less.

Never forget that it was a democrat that approved that shitty ballot.

In 2008 the state leadership moved the primaries up in order to "be important". Many, many states moved their primaries up, its just that MI and FL moved it up too early breaking democratic rules set years/months earlier. Interestingly enough PA also wanted to move it up, at least the governor did, but the legislature kind of dickered around and it never passed. In hindsight of course it turned out the late states are the deciders, not the early ones.

Really, the whole process bugs the shit out of me. A primary is paid for using tax-payer dollars and held in tax-payer funded places. They need to have a 1-day vote, and the winner is the winner, just like the general. Dems and Reps should do this. If they want to run the primary they way they want, thats fine too, but the DNC/RNC should pay for it completely, and not one penny of tax-payer dollars should go to it.

That is, IMO, the biggest problem with democrats choosing to not count FL and MI. They paid for the primary using some tax payer dollars, and getting zero representation for it.

Hopefully the people of florida are pissed off at their retarded elected government and vote out the people who decided to break the rules in a grab for glory, its 100% their fault FL and MI essentially got written off the democratic primary process.

They are starting to protest at least.

[Malakriss]

The DNC will not and should not accept any results from the FL and MI primaries that were discounted. The simple fact that they were discounted beforehand invalidated the results because a) voters would not bother to participate, b) most candidates did not campaign, c) Michigan didn't even list all of the candidates for votes.

At this point it's clear Obama is getting the nomination regardless of FL and MI so it boils down to a civil liberty issue with the "retarded elected governments". Spending millions more of tax-payer dollars is not a solution, especially at the behest of those same retards.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Where was all the protesting for the year and a half the people of Florida and Michigan were aware of the rule changes and proceeded anyway?

[Angerz]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Where was all the protesting for the year and a half the people of Florida and Michigan were aware of the rule changes and proceeded anyway?

I assume it didn't happen because the people of the state didn't think the DNC would disenfranchise the entire democrat population 2 of the most important states in the last 2 general presidential elections.

I also assume that "Move up the primary against the rules, check yes or no" wasn't on the ballot last November, so they probably assumed their elected officials wouldn't fuck them.

That is a lot of assumptions, and a lot of trust in people who really don't seem to be worthy of it, but, there it is.