Clinton and Obama

[Adam12]

Originally Posted by Soriak

Clinton wins in Florida. What I find amazing is that so far there are almost as many Democrats voting as Republicans, and you have to expect a lot of Democrats not showing up since they don't get any delegates.

Considering it'll be a battle state in the general election, Obama is getting beaten pretty hard.

Obama 70% of the black vote, 20% of the white vote. Clinton 60% latinos, Obama 30%.
Yeah, this race does seem to be a lot about race - if he can't get more whites on board, he's doomed.

The delegates don't count in Florida, and there was no campaigning being done there. Hillary wins mostly upon name recognition there.

As far as the hispanic votes go, I don't know about where you people grew up, but Southern California Mexicans had some deep rooted hatred towards blacks.

[Moontayle]

Originally Posted by Adam12

The delegates don't count in Florida, and there was no campaigning being done there. Hillary wins mostly upon name recognition there.

But you can bet your ass that if either candidate is MI and FL delegates away from being named the democratic candidate that it'll become a major issue.

[Adam12]

Originally Posted by Moontayle

But you can bet your ass that if either candidate is MI and FL delegates away from being named the democratic candidate that it'll become a major issue.

If it's tight heading into the convention, the nomination will go down to "super delegates." I only have a marginal understanding of those, so I won't try to explain it.

What I see happening is one of the two head into the convention with a clear lead. The Clinton's will ask for MI and FL to have their delegates seated, and to have them go towards the leader. MI and FL are huge swing states in the general election, and the Democrats will need to not alienate them.

[Kez]

If they didn't want to risk alienating Michigan & Florida in the General election, the national Democratic Party shouldn't have stripped the two states of all their delegates. If they wanted to punish them for moving up their primary date without approval, then they should have taken the Republican Party's approach and stripped them of half the delegates, but encouraged the candidates to still campaign in those states. It would have been a hell of a lot better outcome with the candidates allowed to actually speak their message to the people and have a vote that truly did matter rather than this farce where the delegates may or may not get seated depending on how much ground Hillary has to cover with the non-super delegates.

[Araxen]

It's up to the Dem Nom to determine on how to seat the delegates and it's not going to change.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

How do you guys think this battle will play out if Al Gore endorses Obama. Due to the fall out between him and the Clintons I doubt he will endorse Hillary. We saw the effects of the Crist endorsement for McCain tonight. I think a Gore endorsement for Obama will be significant.

President Carter did everything but just come out and endorse Obama in this clip:

Carter Stays Neutral in Race, But Praises Obama's Oratory - WSJ.com

[Araxen]

I don't think Gore will endorse anybody, and I think he may have said it himself already, iirc.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Adam12

The delegates don't count in Florida, and there was no campaigning being done there. Hillary wins mostly upon name recognition there.

A little devil's advocate but I imagine its just completely impossible and downright unlikely that the voting democrats in Florida actually like Clinton and her policies and stances more the Obama and his. You are right, it's name recognition alone, because we all know that the people of Florida are all idiots, who can't read, watch TV, or do research on the candidates at all.

Some people are just lol. Like nobody in Florida has any idea who Obama is.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Araxen

I don't think Gore will endorse anybody, and I think he may have said it himself already, iirc.

He is endorsing after super Tuesday, it appears he wants to play reinforcer rather then decider.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Kez

If they didn't want to risk alienating Michigan & Florida in the General election, the national Democratic Party shouldn't have stripped the two states of all their delegates. If they wanted to punish them for moving up their primary date without approval, then they should have taken the Republican Party's approach and stripped them of half the delegates, but encouraged the candidates to still campaign in those states. It would have been a hell of a lot better outcome with the candidates allowed to actually speak their message to the people and have a vote that truly did matter rather than this farce where the delegates may or may not get seated depending on how much ground Hillary has to cover with the non-super delegates.

I agree, stripping them of their delegates was a poor decision, and discourages, rather then encourages people to participate in the process. You can thank Howard Dean for that bullshit, I think he is crazy and I am uncomfortable with him on the political scene in any manner.

I will disagree with the second part, I don't think the outcome would have been any different if they were allowed to campaign there. It's not like Florida lives behind the iron curtain. In this modern age of isntant everything, global connectivity and real time coverage of everything and anything, we Floridians (and yes, I am one) are WELL versed on the candidates, what they stand for, and their plans and ideas.

We see the debates, just like you do. We see the speaches, we read the articles, and we browse the candidates websites. Perhaps the results would change by a small percentage if the candidates stumped here directly (especially in favor of Obama, who has an almost brainwashing capacity with his public speaking) but I doubt it would have reversed or been a landslide in the other direction.

With all that said, the more HRC demands that Florida delegates be counted, and the more the DNC and Obama say it shouldnt, the more solidy that state goes into her corner. Disregard one of the most important states in the political process over a calendar change ?

You may yet see those delegates get seated.

[Araxen]

Richardson: "I had just been asked a question -- I don't remember which one -- and Obama was sitting right next to me. Then the moderator went across the room, I think to Chris Dodd, so I thought I was home free for a while. I wasn't going to listen to the next question. I was about to say something to Obama when the moderator turned to me and said, 'So, Gov. Richardson, what do you think of that?' But I wasn't paying any attention! I was about to say, 'Could you repeat the question? I wasn't listening.' But I wasn't about to say I wasn't listening. I looked at Obama. I was just horrified. And Obama whispered, 'Katrina. Katrina.' The question was on Katrina! So I said, 'On Katrina, my policy . . .' Obama could have just thrown me under the bus. So I said, 'Obama, that was good of you to do that.'"

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

[Havelock]

Originally Posted by Araxen

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Obama's a good man. I disagree with him on a lot of issues, and think he's dangerously naive on foreign policy, but I greatly admire his boundless optimism and decency. If he were elected, I'd have no problem being proud of who I worked for.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

A little devil's advocate but I imagine its just completely impossible and downright unlikely that the voting democrats in Florida actually like Clinton and her policies and stances more the Obama and his. You are right, it's name recognition alone, because we all know that the people of Florida are all idiots, who can't read, watch TV, or do research on the candidates at all.

Some people are just lol. Like nobody in Florida has any idea who Obama is.

Hillary didnt win on name recognition.

She campaigned in the state in a way to supercede the rules (surprise!).

What was the one issue FL voters cared about more than the economy and the war?

Getting their votes counted/having a say.

By stating before the primary she wanted the FL delegates seated it was tantamount to campaigning. The newspapers in FL went apeshit when she said that and she got a huge boost.

She cheated.

Plain and simple.

The sad thing is FL dems fell for it and ppl across the country are too stupid to realize it.

[Havelock]

Originally Posted by Etoille

Hillary didnt win on name recognition.

She campaigned in the state in a way to supercede the rules (surprise!).

What was the one issue FL voters cared about more than the economy and the war?

Getting their votes counted/having a say.

By stating before the primary she wanted the FL delegates seated it was tantamount to campaigning. The newspapers in FL went apeshit when she said that and she got a huge boost.

She cheated.

Plain and simple.

The sad thing is FL dems fell for it and ppl across the country are too stupid to realize it.

So you're in favor of the disenfranchisement of voters? I'm not a big Hillary fan, but her trying to get Florida Democrats' votes to count doesn't strike me as even a little bit underhanded. The other candidates should have done the same thing.

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Havelock

So you're in favor of the disenfranchisement of voters? I'm not a big Hillary fan, but her trying to get Florida Democrats' votes to count doesn't strike me as even a little bit underhanded. The other candidates should have done the same thing.

I stated my position on either this or another thread.

I favor people following the rules and not crying foul when they CHOOSE to break them. I favor an outcome which will not cause party chaos and primaries starting in 2010.

The people very easily could have called their state party leaders and said "dont do this".

Instead they supported a position that caused their own disenfranchisement.

And CONTINUE to do so.

If you read anything about this in the last few days...you'd know that FL still has the power to have its voice heard. They made a choice to say fuck you to the rules everyone else has to follow, and when given a chance at reprieve they continue to say fuck you we're doing things our way we're special rules are for everyone but us.

But hey, theyre also the people that were too stupid to see thru what Hillary did. LOLZ